Phong Le: How Strategy's STRC Pays 11.5% From Bitcoin | Bitcoin Backstage

What is stretch? Stretch is an ability to take your money and put it into an equity security and account that pays you 11 and 1/2% monthly. And and that's the most basic form of Bitcoin as we simplify it more and more over time. And of course with that simplification from Bitcoin to digital asset treasury companies to stretch, it gives more people access to Bitcoin. And to your point, as we raise money in the stretch, what do we do? We feed it back into the Bitcoin ecosystem. >> We're here with Phong Le from Strategy. How are you today? >> I'm doing awesome. Thanks for having me. >> I know. Thank you for coming and giving us a little bit space and your time. So, Strategy is this company that has been leading a huge market now with like the Bitcoin treasury companies. It has built something that didn't exist before. Convertible debt, perpetual preference, ATM issuance, all designed to accumulate more Bitcoin per share. For the person in this room who isn't a capital markets nerd, what's actually new about what you built? >> Well, I'll start with there's a lot that has changed in the last year. You were just asking me what's my favorite Bitcoin era, and it's always the current present one, right? Cuz there's just so much innovation, so much change. You know, a year ago, we were at this event Bitcoin Vegas 2025, and the big emerging conversation was Bitcoin treasury companies, DATs, whatever you want to call them. And we went from having four to 200 around the world in the course of literally a year. And that was fantastic, right? Adapt for every country, for every market, different purposes, even ones that hold other cryptocurrencies. Fantastic, great. And now here we fast forward to literally just a year later and we had this emergence of a brand new asset class built on the back of Bitcoin, which is what you just mentioned uh perpetual preferred called stretch. Uh and and what's awesome and exciting about stretch is you know Bitcoin, right? Digital capital. It's a tough concept. Here we sit in the echo chamber of Bitcoin Vegas. Everyone here gets it. You go outside in the real world, it's a difficult concept to grasp. You need to understand finance, corporate finance, macroeconomics, cryptography, computer engineering, computer science, all these things, right? And so we put on top of that digital equities, right? Which are these digital asset treasury companies. So basically publicly traded companies that put back Bitcoin on their balance sheet. A little bit easier cuz people will sort of get ah I can buy uh a stock, a four-letter ticker on the Nasdaq, New York Stock Exchange and it has access to Bitcoin. It's a little easier. But if you go out into the real world, there are a lot of people who don't invest in equities. They don't invest in stocks, right? Or don't have access for whatever reason. So we said how do you strip it down to make it even easier? And and forget about the word perpetual preferreds and all that kind of stuff for a sec. What is stretch? Stretch is an ability to take your money and put it into uh an equity security account that pays you 11 and 1/2% monthly. Right? And and that's the most basic form of Bitcoin as we simplify it more and more over time. And of course with that simplification from Bitcoin to digital asset treasury companies to stretch, it gives more people access to Bitcoin. And to your point, as we raise money in the stretch, what do we do? We feed it back into the Bitcoin ecosystem and it's allowed us to accumulate over 800 of, you know, 10,000 Bitcoin. And a lot of that accumulation has occurred because of stretch. >> Wow. Now, you say how much you guys have accumulated and you guys are projected to reach a million Bitcoin by September. >> Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of websites there there are you know, prediction market guesses on when we're going to reach a million. I'll tell you I don't know when we're going to reach a million. Obviously, we're going to continue to try to grow Bitcoin per share by selling as much stretch into the market as possible and you know, the million is it's just a number, right? It's not like we stop at a million. >> Do you guys have like an estimate of when you guys will stop? >> Stop buying Bitcoin? >> Yeah. >> No. >> No? >> No. >> And [laughter] you say like you accumulate with stretch as well. How does that process work for you guys? So, let's say for example, me. I go in and invest in stretch, I get it and how does that work for you guys? >> Yeah, so so very simply what do we do, right? We take we sell stretch which is a perpetual preferred product. You can buy it on the NASDAQ or on a Robinhood, you buy stretch, all right? And every month you get paid at the end of the month. So, for example, if you hold stretch on April 15th, on April 30th you get paid 11 and a half percent annualized. So, about a percent a month. That's sort of what happens to the shareholder of stretch. What happens to us is that money you put in the stretch, let's say you buy 10 of shares and you buy dollars, right? And as the demand for stretch outstrips the demand to buy stretch outstrips people selling stretch, we raise that money and then we put that thousand dollars into Bitcoin. So, how do we actually pay the dividend? What happens with Bitcoin is our prediction is it goes up 30% a year, right? And we hold Bitcoin, right? And as it goes up 30% a year, we're able to uh pay the 11 and 1/2% so we basically get the spread of the 18 and 1/2% in between. That's basically what happens. An individual isn't able to do that at scale. A small company can't do that at scale. But we can do that at scale because we have so much Bitcoin. And that's basically the process. We have unrealized gains on our Bitcoin through our equity. The equity value increases as those unrealized gains are you know occur. And so we can take those gains of the equity to pay out to our investors. It's a beautiful thing. >> It is. You guys have come up with different ways to stack Bitcoin in the most creative way possible. And obviously Stretch is one of them and it's sort of like Bitcoin's iPhone moment. Apple recently announced their new CEO John Turners. What would you say to him if he were you know here in my seat? >> Well well you know I I used to think this idea of Bitcoin for corporations was for everyone to put Bitcoin on the balance sheet. And we've seen a lot of friction in large established companies with established boards and established investment policies putting Bitcoin on their balance sheet. So let's put that aside for a minute. What do you really want to do? You know an an iPhone is a platform for consumers to do pretty much anything, right? And you know and people are building anything apps into mobile devices. Well what can what is still a pretty hard thing to do, right? And and that everyone wants to do. Buying and selling stocks equities even you know Robinhood has made it simpler. But the reality is we're still relying on very archaic rails. Uh broker dealers exchanges regulatory rules and so for example very simply you can't buy and sell strategy stock stretch Apple stock but from 9:30 to 4:00 5 days a week. Right? What should Apple do? Apple should create an ability, right? What has Apple done for payments as an example? Right? The idea that I can have on my wallet my credit card, double click, face ID, pay for a coffee. That's great. What if I could do the same thing with a stock? Right? That I own. What if What if I could actually have a tokenized version on uh decentralized finance rails, a share of stretch, and I say, "Hey, Izzy, you want to buy my share of stretch for $100?" That's the market prevailing price. And you're like, "Yes." I touch your phone, and all of a sudden you have the stock. Right? That That's the future world of tokenization of securities that actually is being worked through from a regulatory perspective with the SEC uh and others. Right? And that's the world we should get to because buying and selling of securities should be just as easy buying and selling a coffee. Right? So, the advice to Apple is this is happening. It's going to happen. It'll happen likely in somewhere in the next 1 to 2 years. Uh and I think that's a beautiful world. Anytime you can reduce the friction of commerce, what do you do? You give access to everybody the ability to buy and sell stocks as tokenized assets, uh tokenized securities, uh and I think that'll be a great thing. >> Wow. No, I never even thought about it that way. >> Yeah. Be pretty >> Yeah. That would be insane. So, you and Michael Saylor obviously work very close together. What's something about your working relationship that would surprise people? >> I'll tell you um a couple of things. Um one is is is everyone realizes uh the uh innovation, the intelligence, the intensity that comes with Michael Saylor. That comes through uh very front and center and it's obvious when you spend time with him or you watch him on TV or on X or YouTube or whatever it is. He's also an extraordinarily kind and caring person and I don't think people quite realize that. And of course, you know, for who he is, there is a veneer, but once you get past that veneer, Mike's one of the nicest people, you know, really caring. You know, he expresses his caring in different ways. I'll tell you another story that I shared the other day is you know, he takes all that caring and he puts it into his life's work, Bitcoin strategy, and he gives it back in that way. Every now and then Mike loves his analogies and his metaphors and he'll sometimes give me, you know, "Fong, it's like raising kids." And I have three kids. And and I let him give give me his analogy. I'm like, "Mike, what do you know about raising kids, dude?" >> [laughter] >> And and and and of course, you know, I think once he's like, "I was a kid once." >> [laughter] >> So, now he he's just a fantastic, kind, caring person. >> Wow, I What do you know about raising kids, Michael? He's like, "I was a kid once." All right. Bitcoin and strategy have their fair share of of haters. What are they missing? >> Well, I'll I'll start with whenever you're doing something that's different, that's popular, that people are talking about, haters will emerge, right? And and haters get more attention than lovers, unfortunately, in today's sort of eyeball sound bite economy, if you will, right? And so, there are people out there. Well, let's say let's say for for example, 70% of people like strategy, 30% hate strategy. Of that 30% of haters, like at least 80% of them. Right? Like so at least 24% of all the people who talk about strategy hate. Just to hate. Right? They're not They are not educated. They don't really understand the company. They don't understand what Bitcoin is. They don't understand what a digital asset treasury company is. They don't understand what protect They just hate. Why do they hate? Because that gets them attention. Right? They're They're life You know, we have perpetual preferred. They're perpetual haters out there. And so I just dismiss those folks. Right? Like they're the folks that when you see someone post something on X, the first thing they do is they like, you know, they they swear and they say that's terrible. The people And it's And it's within 1 second of something getting posted. They're not even reading the thing. Their immediate reaction is to hate. Then, you know, I'll call it the 6% of people who talk about strategy who are haters who actually have a foundation for a reason, you know, base off of education research to not like what we're doing. You have to listen to them. You have to learn and understand, okay, so what are they saying? Right? Why are they saying it? Because within there within that there are nuggets of truth. And you have to understand, you know, it can change your position. It can change your product. It can change your philosophy if you understand those nuggets of truth. Um so, there are some useful haters. There are some perpetual haters and there are their lovers and you need to listen to the useful haters and the lovers and those in between just ignore them. >> [music] [music] >> Set [music] me free. >> [music] [music] >> Set >> [music] >> It's one of those things where we're so different. Everybody's going to need to get into Bitcoin in a different way and you just have to meet them where they are. And one of the things that I've been hearing a lot, especially is strategy has opened the market for people that are not Gen Z'ers, that can wait decades for Bitcoin to, you know, be mined all 21 million Bitcoin. So, you guys have opened the market to this huge untapped uh group of people. So, we have some fire questions. >> Okay. >> Okay. What is your hottest Bitcoin take and the one that might get you in trouble? >> The hottest Bitcoin take and the one that might get me in trouble. I mean, my hottest take right now, obviously, is Stretch. And I truly believe we created a product that is fit for everyone. Right? Like like literally everybody from somebody who uh is a ultra-high net worth individual in their 60s to uh you know, living paycheck to paycheck in their 20s to, you know, me when I was 16 mowing lawns, right? And and of course, that gets us in trouble because people think, well, this is a security, you know, and you're talking to people like you this is fit for everybody. Yeah, you got to do some learning, but it is truly a product that we created that should be fit for everybody. >> So, Bitcoin hits a million dollars, what's the first thing you do? >> [laughter] >> Usually it'll hit a million dollars when I wake up in the morning. The first thing I do, I wake up in the morning, I look at my I should say the first thing I do, I look at my wife and think how much I love her. And then the second thing I do is I I at my phone and I look at Bitcoin price. And if I wake up and Bitcoin price hits a million dollars, I will probably go on X and see what I've missed overnight about people talking about Bitcoin price hitting a million dollars. So, there'll be a little X party happening and I'll join the X party. >> I love that. Will Michael have another 100K party or a million dollars? >> I I can't, you know, the 100K party was a lot of fun. The million dollar party is going to be >> with Elon in the moon. >> [laughter] >> It'll happen soon enough that we probably won't have civilizations on the moon yet. >> So, what's the most wrong you've ever been about Bitcoin? >> Oh, I've been wrong many times. I'll have to think about that. I mean, like, you know, when Mike first presented the idea to me of putting Bitcoin on our balance sheet in 2020, I was pretty convinced it was a good idea. But, I was not as convinced of how much of our dollars we should convert convert into Bitcoin as Michael was. He's, you know, when when he comes up with an idea, he tends to have great conviction and go all in. And I wanted to take it easy. And, you know, I listened to our shareholders and a lot of feedback, which sometimes when you when you know something's right, you got to go all in. So, the first, you know, the first time I was wrong was thinking that we should have put just a small fraction of our balance sheet into Bitcoin, which is the common idea you diversify with 5 10%. And we ended up putting essentially 100% of our excess cash into Bitcoin. And so, I was wrong then. And I'm glad glad that that Mike was right. >> I love it. Hearing you talk, you have a way of being able to take sort of criticism and apply it and adapt it. Like, I want to know everything sort of like about your life. Like, you were talking about mowing like mowing lawns and everything. Now, you're like the CEO of like the most important company out there. Can you tell me a little bit about that? >> Yeah, it's um you know, I'm a pretty even-keeled guy on the outside. Uh and I like to think that I I don't internalize stress. But there are things that sort of get to you. And similar to, you know, the Bitcoin haters, when things get to you and and it call it maybe once a week or once a month something really gnaws at me, uh it is good to internalize it, realize why, and use that energy like a judo move into making good decisions, right? Because if if something gets to you and it's really gnawing at you, it's not because it's uh wrong or it's, you know, people telling you things that are just wrong and you should should move on. Normally, you know, at sort of this stage in your life, I have a pretty good meter of what is right and wrong. And when something gets to you, it's because you're doing something potentially wrong. And so how do you take that and feed it into what is the right solution, right? When you're getting attacked or when you made a decision that people are uh sort of telling you is the wrong decision, the worst thing you can do is dismiss it. You have to take it as positive fuel towards a better outcome. Uh and so that that that gets me to the point where, you know, I'm pretty even-keeled with life, but when there's a negative sort of uh issue, realize that you have to solve it. It's a problem to be solved versus something to uh continually stress and fight against. Uh and so take the negative and turn it into an opportunity for a positive. >> If you could go back to your younger self, looking back at everything that you have accomplished, what would you tell yourself? >> Um you know, life is a gift Uh and success is a gift and you know, in my 20s I often look back at you know, when I was 15 years old and I was preparing for this test or you know, about to play this football game or about to talk to this girl. I wish I could go back in time and do it over. Right? And you know, at this point in my life there isn't much and and this brings me a sense of great happiness. I don't think I'd do anything over. You know, like I could go back a year and maybe have made this different financial decision or 10 years and you know, said this thing differently to one of my children but those are small things. Like where we I I have a great sense of satisfaction that the path that my life has taken has led me to this moment and I won't change anything about it. Right? And and that gives you conviction as you move forward, right? Live maybe what half my life that the decisions and things that happen going forward will happen for good reason. And I certainly realize that a lot of that is based off experience and making decisions based off of the wealth and knowledge you have and the people around you. And of course a lot of that's just luck, right? I've been extremely fortunate and lucky person across all aspects of life. And so with that, you know, what would I tell to my you know, former teenager self? You know, it'll work out. Don't don't sweat it. >> And you also project this peace. Do you have a life motto or a phrase that some it's something that you look back to every day or that motivates you? >> You know, um when my kids were growing up and they were in elementary school, they might remember this. I'd pick them up from school, uh the two older ones, and I'd ask them, "What did you do today where you worked hard? And what did you do today where you were kind?" And those are the two things that I just wanted out of the kids was work hard, be kind. And I would say those are good life mottos. Always work hard, do your best, and be nice when you can. >> Be nice when you can. Also, thank you so much, Phong. This is amazing. I hope you have a great con friends, is there anything that you want to any last words that you want the Bitcoiners or non-Bitcoiners or strategists to know? >> Um what's always heartwarming is as sort of we talk on a more personal level now is when I'm at an event like this or when I meet people who have found Bitcoin, uh who have found strategy, and now who have found the stretch, uh they're just really, really good people. And sometimes Bitcoin, for those who don't spend time within Bitcoin, have this sort of jaded view towards the asset class. They have a view that this is a political, uh you know, asset, that it's for gamblers, risk-takers, and I challenge you, if that is your biased view, informed by largely a lack of information, to go meet some of the Bitcoiners. All right? Just meet some folks, and you'll start to realize that, you know, back to the life motto, they're hard-working folks who are exceptionally kind and generous with their time and with their energy. So, my my my suggestion to everybody, and I realize most of you who will watch this are Bitcoiners, you know, go find some people who don't know Bitcoin, and just encourage them to talk to people who are in the Bitcoin space, as opposed to coming towards it with any preconceived notion, just talk to people with an open mind. >> Talk to people with an open mind. Thank you. >> [music] >> Every year, this community comes together [music] to celebrate, to debate, to build what comes next. >> [music] >> And every year, the stage gets bigger. >> [music] >> Sound money center stage. So, where do you go to celebrate the [music] next chapter in Bitcoin history? You come home. Nashville, [music] July 2027.