Google Taps Berkshire, History of Confidential IPO Filings, AI Executive Order, Putin's Longevity

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Easy to use, corporate cards, bill pay, accounting, and a whole lot more. All in one place. >> It feels so good to be back. Uh, you know who else is back? Google with a huge fund raise, an equity fund raise. Un uh surprising to a lot of people. They haven't raised equity in years and years and years, but they raised a cheeky 80 billion. The Wall Street Journal has the story. >> Alphabet's mega fundraising show. Let's be honest, John. The real story >> is that you got a haircut. >> I did. I didn't just get a haircut. I got the ball cut. I got them all cut. Hey, we got the team there. There we go. That's a new That's a new angle. I like that. Uh well, Alphabet. Uh in AI, money talks, says the Wall Street Journal. The ability to tap stock market capital is important again after a quarter century of being all but irrelevant. So, let's run through it. 80 billion stockbased fundraising should be taken as a rebuke to those salivating over the forthcoming IPOs of SpaceX, OpenAI, Anthropic. Uh the search giant is showing its competitive advantage in an area that increasingly matters for artificial intelligence, access to money. Ben Thompson has a great breakdown too of how capital is so important in the age of AI and the war for AI. Uh, in AI money talks, the biggest companies are paying out hundreds of millions of dollars to lure top researchers and tens of billions to build data centers while financing losses as they build their AI businesses. The money being funneled into AI is probably already making it harder for non-AI startups to raise capital with 61% of all venture capital last year going to AI. It's really like I was I was talking to to somebody um >> that >> who was trying to >> feels low >> like based on based on but but there's a lot of there was a lot of heart attack. >> Well, everything sort of gets wrapped into AI. I was talking to someone about >> that's why it feels low. >> How to have a conversation about AI and it was like you can talk about sycopency. You can talk about data centers and water and energy and uh and like being an eyesore and then you can also talk about enterprise sales and SAS and you can talk about consumer and it just touches absolutely everything. And so it's it's almost it feels like if you're trying to have the AI conversation um rude rude about the Jared Eisman years. We love Jared Isaacman. Uh, >> I don't think that's weird. >> Secret. I don't know. >> Our great space leader Jared. >> Yeah. >> He's incredibly handsome. >> People like saying that about getting a haircut. I got my ears lowered. That's another dad joke. Got my ears lowered. Uh, anyway, uh, yesterday Alphabet announced a massive $80 billion equity raise, says Brandon Grow in the TBPN newsletter. You can go sign up tbp.com. Uh, the raise will be broken up into a few milestones over the course of this year. Berkshire Hathaway, Greg Ael at the helm, Warren Buffett obviously still at the table. Uh, >> but a lot of people a lot of people were there was a viral post yesterday. Somebody was saying >> uh uh Buffett retires and they immediately invest in Google at all-time highs. >> Yeah. >> What other company did they invest in at all-time highs? >> Was that Apple? >> Apple. >> Apple. >> Apple. And look what they did. >> Pretty fantastic. Yeah. Uh I mean for a long time for what 30 40 years uh Warren Buffett was known as like not a tech investor couldn't wrap his mind around it valuation's always too high business too uh too frothy or too high growth like >> well I think he knew vibe coding was coming >> for sure >> and and he thought how are you how can I value a software company when the cost of producing software is obviously going to zero. He was saying that back in 2010. >> Yeah. He wanted to get in on Genoji a decade early. Yeah. >> No, obviously like the business was printing. It fit the Warren Buffett mold. I was actually uh doing this uh this deep dive on like where would Warren Buffett find value in the AI supply chain. I was trying to dig into, you know, if you apply that framework because there's a lot of froth, there's a lot of excitement, there's a lot of high growth opportunities. But >> where would Bergkshire trade if Warren came out of retirement and just said, >> "I'm coming out of retirement to invest in AI bottlenecks. Not only does Berkshire rer rateate, I think everything goes way higher. >> I think so. I think so. Uh, let's see. I want to I want to see because I I I did look at this and I pulled uh >> John, they want you to crack another Diet Coke. >> Another Diet Coke. Here you go. Boom. Satisfying. >> Another one. >> Uh the uh when I did this analysis, the the name that popped up was >> Buffett saw Gstack and knew that the AI revolution was real. It is god mode after all. It is god mode >> in the in the memo. >> Well, >> it's like god mode. >> If you are trying to get in on the action, head over to public.com. Investing for those that take it seriously. Stocks, options, bonds, crypto, treasuries, and more with great customer service. Um, so, uh, my my previous analysis identified Qualcomm has enough AI optionality for the AI investors, but enough business model durability for Buffett. an evaluation that does not require heroic assumptions compared with many AI semiconductor names. Uh most admired but disputed uh TSMC. Buffett actually bought this company but then he sold because he was worried about geopolitical risk. Um and there were some other options but he wound up going with Google and we will break it down. So uh Bergkshire is buying 10 billion worth of shares at a roughly 6% discount from Monday's closing price. Another $30 billion will consist of underwritten public offerings. And the last 40 billion will be staggered common stock offerings beginning in Q3 2026. And overall, the dilution is very low. All the shares Alphabet will sell are brand new, meaning the plan is slightly dilutive for existing shareholders, but at their 4 trillion market cap, where are they right now? They're way, way up. Uh 80 billion just isn't that much dilution for the shareholders, fortunately. Um a lot of opinions on the timeline about this deal. this morning. Uh, I've seen a number of people or Brandon Carell has seen a number of people theorizing that Alphabet is sucking up liquidity AI demand from investors before they'd be able to buy an anthropic or open AI IPO. Richard Rehard Jark gave a few less conspiratorial explanations. One, >> yeah, a lot of people were saying that about SpaceX. Yeah. >> But the other the the the more simple answer is you should probably raise capital when it's cheap. >> Yeah. And there's a lot of demand. There's a lot of capital out there and so uh there's a lot of demand for basically all of these names uh when there's a new trend. Uh and we've seen liquidity pull out of other sectors of the market and so it has to go somewhere. Certainly makes sense that it would go into the latest and greatest technology. So, uh Alphabet seeing demand for Gemini go up and so it's going to invest more in compute and scale. Ben Thompson had per usual a solid piece on the race this morning. He wrote qu quote the first question is why did Google issue equity instead of debt so there's some rumors that debt might be coming uh and the equity is sort of a precursor to that but Ben Thompson writes debt is all things being equal the preferred instrument for investment the proceeds of the latter pay off better than the former and existing equity holders reap all of the benefits equity on the other hand removes the risk of debt but at the cost of giving up a future share of profits uh that leads to why uh what may be the aam's Razer, AAM's 1D Razer, 2D Razer. No, a Razer is threedimensional, right? So, it's a 3D Razer, like 4D chess, 3D chess, 4D chess. Anyway, Google is going to start issuing a lot more debt as well. Uh, which is to say that everyone continues to underestimate the amount of demand there is for compute. Of course, that's not far off from a more bearish interpretation. Google is uncertain about the return of investment of all of that capex and would f prefer to share the risk along with the upside. If there isn't a substantial debt issuance down the road, then this might be the right answer. Um, yeah, I mean, compute is remarkably expensive. We're looking at, you know, even even within the the cogs or the or the cost of inference for the labs, we're seeing, you know, dollars per task. It's a lot of money, a lot of dollars flowing into these data centers. But when you actually run the numbers on the tasks that they are completing, uh comp that to other sources to get something done, um you're seeing positive ROI. So, it's all just a productivity uplift, which is uh good to uh good to see. Uh the uh the Wall Street Journal continues and says, "Bond investors think the hundreds of billions of dollars of debt being raised by big tech is pushing up the yield and other borrowers have to pay and even and it's even affecting government bond yields. Uh the govern the hyperscalers of Alphabet, Microsoft, Amazon, and Meta have become major bond issuers as they ramp up spending with Alphabet alone raising 85 billion in a series of record-breaking issues around the world. In the past year, they might raise more in debt. But the stock market is the obvious place to raise capital to spend on the exciting bits of AI where the returns are unknown, technology is rapidly developing, and business models are in flux. Unlike debt, companies don't have to repay their shareholders. And if it takes longer to make money from AI or never makes money, the company can simply wait it out if it was financed by stock, though investors would be very unhappy. Uh, Alphabet is one of a tiny number of companies capable of raising so much cash without tanking its stock. What did the stock do, Jordy? >> It's down a couple points today, but I don't >> Okay, not too bad necessarily. >> Thanks to its near monopoly in online search and credibility with Wall Street in new ventures. That's a really good point. Uh for a long time, tech has been uh sort of cold on Google's side projects. Uh but they're starting to bear so so much fruit. You look at the progress with Whimo and it's very clear that just one win in Whimo will be a power law that will wash out all of the side chat apps that never went anywhere or little little software projects that and April Fool's jokes that they launched. And some of them will become really big businesses as well. They have other stuff. Calico, >> they have the mosquitoes right now. Mosquitoes are crazy. That was a weird weird headline. I didn't know. >> I'm excited about releasing, you know, billions of genetically modified mosquitoes into the environment to try to kill all the mosquitoes. >> Wait, they're mosquitoes that kill mosquitoes. They do. Okay. >> They're like infertile or something basically. something that uh I'm excited because there's like almost certainly could never possibly be any unexpected >> downside to disrupting the circle of life. >> Who knows? Who knows? People have been studying this for like 20 years. So, I'm I'm optimistic. >> It would be one of those things like Yeah, one of those things would be amazing if we can just nuke all the mosquitoes off the map. >> But I got a feeling they're doing something important. >> Yeah. there. >> Let's be Let's actually >> Let's actually try to get to the bottom of this. >> Wait, is the Should we be selling the bug repellent industry short right now? Should we be going turbo short uh all mosquito repellent companies? They're probably going to go out of business if they get rid of all the mosquitoes, right? This is uh finance 101 right here. Anyway, I can keep reading. >> Don't don't give our little retail troll over there any ideas. >> He's going to go short. Uh while 80 billion is huge, it amounts to less than 2% of the market value of a company trading at $4.5 trillion. The stock was down just $2.6% in pre-market trading. There seems to be an unlimited supply of willing buyers to fund AI. If it turns out there is a limit, Alphabet can only benefit by going first. From a societal standpoint, says the Wall Street Journal, the purpose of the stock market is to funnel money from millions of savers into giant projects, just as in the 19th century railroads. Uh for the past 25 years, that role has been less important as private capital funds grew large enough to finance companies for much longer before they needed to go public. AI's vast consumption of cash is beyond even the capability of private markets. However, sure there are other reasons to list such as allowing employees to cash out their stock options. 30 billion, you mentioned this earlier today, 30 billion of Alphabet's stock issuance is earmarked for paying tax on employee stock awards. Um, but the ability to tap stock market capital is important again after a quarter century of being all but irrelevant. As we move into a new era of capital heavy industries, the stock market stops being merely a way for private investors to exit, but an attractive source of capital. The bear in me worries that all this equity raising is also about taking advantage of record stock prices and could be a sign that the top is near, says the Wall Street Journal. They're almost calling the top, but they near mosquitoes do have some environmental value, >> though most of it is not unique to mosquitoes, which is why people debate how much the world would miss them. They're food source >> for spiders. >> Uh mosquito larvae are eaten by fish, frogs, dragon flies, beetles, birds, bats, and other insects. >> And uh adult mosquitoes are eaten by birds, bats. So, so we already have friends in the animal kingdom >> that are just eating these eating them alive. >> Yeah. >> So, that's good. >> So, you'd be pollination birds and frogs around. >> Um, no. But the argument is that a lot of other animals >> like contribute the same sort of general environmental value. >> Sure. >> So, if you took out some of these disease spreaders, >> pro mosquito. He's in the pocket of big mosquito over here. He's like, "Oh, I love Oh, I have a pet mosquito at home. I love mosquitoes." Not a dog person. I'm a mosquito guy. I I like mosquitoes. This is you. You're a mosquito, dude. >> Yeah. Wow. That's weird. I've never met you. You >> ever get an eye like swollen shot by a mosquito? >> No. Never. >> That was me. >> I've gotten a few like bites on my legs. You kind of X them out or try not to scratch them. They say don't scratch them because that spreads the poison a little bit. But it's like a minor minor nuisance. But I think that they spread a lot of disease and that's the real reason why people are are so aggressive about illness. >> Somebody should do a street interview. Yeah. >> Where they go around asking people >> Yeah. >> Would you want to if you had the chance to eliminate all >> Yeah. >> mosquitoes in the world with no downsides to the environment? >> Yeah. >> Or $100,000 in Dinner with Jay-Z. >> Yeah. >> What would you choose? >> Yeah. We >> There would be some interesting answers. Are they releasing these in America in California? >> I think so. >> That's crazy. A private company could just release animals. >> Like could could Microsoft just release like a million bears or something? Like like what what's the limit of this? Can you just release like hey yeah like we're we're releasing 25,000 >> was an early idea on this show, right? It was like bear defense companies. >> Yeah. Domesticated bears. Just you know wild dogs. More coyotes. More deer maybe. What? Pick your poison. Whatever animal you want, just get it out there. >> I think if we put enough monster energy, >> I heard Truth Social is going to release like a million bald eagles. That's their goal. >> That's the next thing. >> Oh, that's why the company's so unprofitable. >> Yeah. They've been buying bald eagles and breeding them continuously. >> No, I think I think one of the reasons mosquitoes bite humans is there's not enough cans of like cracked open monster energy. Yeah. >> So, if I think if you put a bunch of monsters out when you camped, you'd probably be safe. Mosquitoes would obviously much rather have monster energy than blood, right? >> And does that sterilize them? I think that might I think that might do the trick. >> It might do the opposite actually. >> Yeah, >> it might make them even more powerful. >> Here's an idea. Release a 100,000 bulls charging through Manhattan as a sponsorship opportunity, as a marketing stunt for the New York Stock Exchange. Want to change the world? Raise capital at the New York Stock Exchange. They they have the golden bowl. There's the bull. Why not release a ton of a ton of real life bulls? Who knows? Maybe it has a positive uh positive externality on the on the life cycle of Manhattan. You know, they they they wind up finding a home in Central Park and the Bulls run through Manhattan. >> Do you do you think Meta follows suit and does an equity race like this? >> Maybe. I can imagine Zuck not wanting to do this right now given where they're trading. >> The stock's down. I mean, it's not it's not that down, but it isn't like popping like the rest of the AI hypers. >> Yeah, I was comparing Meta to Tesla today according to companies market cap, >> which which doesn't seem to be. companies. Marketcap.com has one job, which is to track the market caps >> of companies, >> and I find the data to be somewhat inconsistent. >> Meta's like sort of near all-time highs. It's not that far off. It's certainly it's certainly up from the trough of when the when the stock was 100 bucks in 2022. >> Anyways, so yeah, I was looking at the two. Meta had 200 billion of 2025 uh revenue, 164 billion of gross profit, 82% gross margins growing 22% a year. Tesla >> had 94 billion, 17 billion of gross profit. >> Uh uh actually shrunk 3% uh year-over-year and uh Tesla is getting close to being worth the same amount of >> 1.3 trillion. 1.3 versus >> I mean if you look at the Mag 7 if you're just doing the the the biggest seven tech companies it's it's like completely changed hands in terms of like Samsung Micron there's so many uh there's so many companies deeper in the supply chain that are uh absolutely uh mooning on the AI boom. Um so maybe maybe we need a new term. We had Fang for a while. Now we have Mag 7. It feels like we're in the dawn of a new one. Uh we'll see. We'll see. Um anyway, >> anyway, where I was going with that, I I can see Zuck feeling like I'm not being properly properly valued right now. >> Should buy the stock back if anything. >> Yeah, if anything, although they should buy they don't have a lot of >> because they're spending a lot on capex. Yeah. >> Uh anyway, Matt D has some takes on Google on the raise. He says, "First, I don't think this has anything to do with their view of equity value. So, they don't necessarily think they're overvalued. Larry and Sergey want to spend. Sundar and the CFO said our debt rating though and so we are here they don't want to raise more debt of the 80 billion 40 billion is for infrastructure but I suspect that the equity check for a metalike SPV structure will be levered five to 6x in other words the spending implications are much greater than the headline can't believe it's only Monday so they're going to take 40 billion lever that up across their infrastructure efforts and put something closer to 200 billion to work over the next year and that pays for their capex bill for probably just next year because there'll probably be around there in like the AWS tier, especially on the back of that Google Cloud growth is growing faster than AWS, growing faster than Azure. So, lots of reasons to spend, spend, spend. Um, >> John, they're saying we need a L'Oreal ad read from John. Okay, >> that new hair. >> Shout out Jasper. >> I I like that company. They're great great team. Uh anyway, uh Google raising 80 billion in equity, more compute, more AI spend, full send, downrange. Jack Reigns says the gigabrain move by Google is sucking up some of the AI demand via equity issuance instead of debt before anthropic and open AI go public. We'll see what happens. We'll see how much demand is out there. SpaceX is going out in just a couple weeks. So, we'll see how that goes. But, uh there's a lot of there's a lot of money, John. >> Couple days. >> Next week. >> Next week. Um, I mean there's, yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of liquidity across all of the retirement funds that are funneling into these things. There's a whole bunch of different things. Uh, Sergey, uh, Alex Shenko has the chart of Google Alphabet equity raises. This can't possibly include Oh, their their venture round. >> So, SpaceX going out on a Friday. >> That is going to be insane. >> After the market closes or something? >> No, I mean, obviously open. Yeah. uh but then immediately goes into 48 hours. >> Yeah, th this chart this chart can't possibly include the venture rounds that happened pre IPO, right? But I guess they might be so small that they don't even show up on here in 1998 >> uh because it's less than 1 billion. I mean, Google famously did not raise a lot of money. It was very profitable when they went out uh to go public. Um, and Toptick Crypto has pivoted to the memory trade and says the memory trade can't keep going because the hyperscalers can't spend more than 100% of cash flow. And while Google would like a word because they can spend more than 100% cash flow because they can raise equity and they can raise debt and they can get all sorts of money from all over the place. So, uh, what else is Bergkshire doing these days? Berkshire is investing 10 billion into Google in a private placement as part of the broader $80 billion equity capital raise. Uh Warren Buffett is here watching Greg Ael take 10 billion of money that he painstakingly made over his entire investment lifetime and put it into Google at all-time highs. I don't think this is an accurate reaction to Warren Buffett because this play worked with Apple and Google's in a fantastic position to continue doing this. uh uh Ben Thompson broke this whole de this whole thing down comparing what Warren Buffett had done with Se's candy to buy a railroad which is a fascinating uh example. So um they they bought Seas Berkshire Hathaway bought Se's candy for 25 million when sales were 30 million. So less than a 1x revenue multiple pre-tax earnings were less than 5 million. So they paid fi roughly 5x uh pre-tax earnings. So ibida uh the capital then required to conduct the business was 8 million locked away in seas candy. Uh then they had some seasonal debt but generally the company was earning 60% pre-tax on invested capital 5 million out every year 8 million locked up. So last year, uh, this is from 2007, the shareholder letter. Last year, C's sales in 2007 or 2006 were $383 million. Pre-tax profits were $82 million. And the capital to run the business, it was only $40 million. So they'd grown the amount of capital by 4x 5x, but they'd grown the actual cash flow from that business significantly from 5 million to 82 million. And so, uh, Warren Buffett says, "This means we have had to reinvest only 32 million since 1972." 1972 to 2007, he's reinvesting 32 million. And every year he gets a check for $82 million. That's a fantastic cash flowing business. What did he do with that business, which generated pre-tax earnings of 1.35 billion or something like that, uh, which was sent to Berkshire. Well, he bought a railroad. So um uh BNSF railways the railways require a ton of capital to operate. BNSF consumed 3.8 billion last year. They also make a lot of money. The net income was 5.5 billion on revenue of 23.4 billion but it requires a lot of business a lot of revenue a lot of uh cash tied up in the business to run that. And so to put that in perspective the total amount of money that Bergkshire has made from Seas Candy is probably less than three billion. uh so less than BNSF made last year. Um so which is a better business? And he goes on to talk about cloud and Google and how they have the search engine that throws off cash and they can use that to build the railroad of the future which is all the data centers and AI infrastructure. And so uh a lot to like and it's not as much of like oh this is wildly outside of the wheelhouse. Bergkshire's never seen a business like this. Uh that's not true. That's it. This isn't that out of characteristic. It is a wonderful business and it actually pattern matches to what Bergkshire has done with Apple and also with the Railroad and Seas Candy before. So, uh, don't be that surprised. But what is more surprising is this story. You want to take us through it? But first, let me tell you about Crowd Strike. Your business is AI. Their business is securing it. Crowd Strike secures AI and stops breaches. In the journal today, Bergkshire is convinced the American dream of home home ownership will stay alive. I realize, John, there's a bunch of soundboard effects that I would only hit when we were doing ads. That's true. So, I miss them. >> Oh, it's so ads back. >> I love it. >> Uh, Bergkshire is convinced the American dream of home home ownership will stay alive under its new chief executive, Greg Ael. Bergkshire >> raises its bet on a market recovery by adding another housing company to its portfolio. >> Fantastic. >> Uh Berkshire Hathway $6.8 billion deal uh to acquire What are you laughing at? Miss >> I'm just laughing at the fact that like like you know they did two10 billion deals and one was buying like an entire home builder and the other was buying like 0.01% 01% of Google and uh just the scale of these different things like like the it's an extremely cool deal. We'll get into it. It's very interesting. But at the same time, it's like total peanuts compared to like the AI build app. >> Well, yeah. Potentially like a work harder or work smarter not harder moment. Like we'll see which one of these ends up generating a better return. >> This seems extremely important. I'm extremely excited like one data center or an entire homebuilder that is their entire business and probably very storied. We'll get into it. >> Well, we don't know. He might be pivoting it into a data center. >> Maybe >> that would be the ultimate. >> Maybe a couple 2x4s, rackom, you know, meta using tents. Maybe the next uh data center looks like a house. A lot less controversial. You know, the nimi if you just see a nice craftsman home next to you. You're like, "Yeah, whatever. It looks nice." You know, I don't I don't have a problem with that. You know, oh, the chimney smoking. That's the diesel generator. It's a diesel center among us. >> This might be the solution. Tyler, what you got? I I was going to say um like these two deals are still small compared to like the actual cash that they're holding. Something I I think uh most recently it was 397 billion. >> That's so much. >> So even then it's like oh wow you know he's still white turbo say but you know he's still cash Chad right now. >> Oh hopefully inflation doesn't get him. We'll see. Anyway continue >> uh with an allcash agreement Sunday for Taylor Morrison Home Corporation. The Omaha based conglomerate is poised to become a top five US home builder, >> adding to its growing portfolio of housing related companies. Bergkshire's home builder deal is a sign that a prominent investor thinks the housing slump will eventually pass and it wants to be positioned to take advantage of any market turn. More than 75% of young renters still think they someday will own a home. That is great. Uh glad that um I I would have thought it was less than that given given like sentiment online. Uh and so it's great. >> There's been a bunch of there's been a bunch of weird studies where like when you zoom out, you look at Gen Z home ownership and it's actually pretty high, but that's driven by non-coastal cities because people move to San Francisco. Obviously, house prices are through the roof and a lot of people are like, "Yeah, I want to rent and go to some local house party." Like, I I want to be in the mix. And then at some point people make the decision. So it's more about like family planning, but of course there's all sorts of, you know, affordability issues. But >> chat says, "White pill, never doom. >> Never doom." >> Uh, this investment is grounded in a long-term belief in the strength of America's housing market and its underlying fundamentals, which we see as enduring over time. >> Uh, Bergkshire is raising its exposure to a housing market in its fourth year of dismal sales. High mortgage rates, job market uncertainty, and the rising cost of living have kept many prospective buyers on the sidelines. Builders have been forced to offer incentives such as paying part of buyers mortgage costs just to unload their inventory. Builder confidence is low. Single family home >> starts declined 9% in April, the steepest drop since August. A third of builders said they had cut their prices last month. Moreover, many Americans now think home ownership is beyond their budget. more people are renting for longer or putting their savings into the stock market rather than investing in a home. >> But analysts think analysts say the US housing shortage of more than four million homes means new homes need to be built. >> They expect more buyers will return to the market once mortgage rates, which recently hit a 9-month high >> come down and trigger pent up buyer demand. >> Bergkshire has agreed to pay a 24% premium to Taylor Morrison's closing stock price of 58 uh.58. >> That's an incredible bargain. Friday analysts see the price is a good deal for Berkshire because the actual value of the builder's home portfolio uh bellies its lagging stack stock stock price. That is an incredible bargain says Tony Avala, chief executive of Builder Advisor Group. Uh Taylor Morrison's stock shot up 22% Monday. This is a quote by Warren Buffett. This is the first deal for Abel, Greg Ael, the new CEO of Berkshire Hathaway. And Warren Buffett said gave a quote to the journal. He has launched. Yeah, that's launched. I love it on Monday. Uh then they talk about the the Google deal. Uh Taylor Morrison is a safer bet in a precarious home building market. The company tends to focus on the higher end of the market, which has performed better. A significant part of its business is built around buyers looking to upgrade to nicer homes rather than entry- level buyers who are struggling the most. In addition, the company is part of a smaller segment of builders that have leaned into socalled build to rent communities of single family homes constructed for the sole purpose of renting. Uh Congress recently recently threatened build to rent developers with a proposal that would force them to sell their properties within seven years of building them. But House lawmakers removed that proposal in an attempt to rescue the burgeoning sector. The Taylor Morrison deal is the latest example of consolidation in the residential construction industry. Last month, Avalon Bay Communities and Equity Residential agreed to merge in the largest multif family uh combination on record years after sluggish profits. Uh, this puts pressure on others to find a dance partner, says Alan Ratner. Uh, interesting. Well, we'll continue following up on that. Well, uh, they own railroads and you should be on Railway. Railway is the all-in-one intelligent cloud provider. Use your favorite agent to deploy web app, servers, databases, and more. While Railway automat automatically takes care of scaling, monitoring, and security. Uh we have some time. >> What do you think the odds that the admin does some type of mega project around >> home building? >> Almost zero. >> Like I I don't see I don't see the government building homes. I think that the number one lever that any administration has over housing affordability is interest rates. Sure. And doing something >> program. >> Yeah. But but specifically just the like the Fed funds rate like if you can do something to bring that. >> Yeah. I just I just mean we're at a time we're at a time with like at least in modern his history history like relatively unprecedented government >> intervolvement. Yeah. >> You know government taking a stake in intel. >> You think they might build the cube? You know the cube? >> What's a cube? >> There's a cube that if you built it in Central Park one mile by one mile by one mile it would fit a billion people inside. So, housing housing crisis solved. No windows, but if you build the cube, no more housing issues. >> Wait. Uh, not Buffett. But, um, who's the guy that built the the the the Nolan? >> No, the dorm at UCSB. >> Oh, yeah. Charlie Mer. >> Charlie. >> Charlie Munger. >> Yeah, Mer. >> He was building cubes. >> He was he was early the cube. >> Not a member of the government, not doing a mega project. I would be surprised if there's something that's first party. But Tyler has another take. >> I was just gonna say the admin is not supposed to be able to like interfere with interest rates, right? >> Yeah. But >> that is independent. >> But there's a lot of things that you can do where >> interest rates were declining until we got into >> Yeah. Like like if you strengthen the economy, pull back from from uh geopolitical risks and whatnot like fiscal dominance. >> Yeah. This kind of there's just there will be things that open up the Fed to cutting rates potentially. Um, but yeah, I I don't know. It's a very clearly it's not within the admin's uh abilities. What? >> Well, let's head over to James Walker. >> Okay, what's James Walker up to? >> He's boarding this morning's flight with an emotional support trout. >> Is this AI? Is this real? This is insane. >> Honestly, I don't think AI could nail this era of Instagram filter. >> Bringing a Is the fish alive? This is crazy. Bringing a fish on a plane is hilarious, but that does not feel very uh humane. It feels like a very uncomfortable situation for a fish. But I guess if you got to get somewhere, uh you got to go you got to go in the tube. >> Think about it though, John. >> Yeah. >> Think about the things this fish will have seen >> that many fish would never see in a lifetime. >> Yeah. >> So, is it is it inhumane? >> Yeah. >> Or is it inhumane not to let the fish >> Yeah. If you got a trout, it's like, I think the Earth is flat. I've never seen the curvature. You're like, well, you're going into 747 and I'm showing you out the window. You look out the window, you'll see the curvature of the Earth potentially. Or maybe it's just the windows. Maybe the windows on the plane are curving it. >> This was a good post from Key. He said, "This dude is effing Sherlock Holmes." Okay. >> Somebody says 100% this ad is sponsored by OpenAI from >> the Open AI >> from the official OpenAI account. >> It's not even sponsored. >> It's actually posted by OpenAI. >> It's not even marketing. It's just communications. >> This is a wild This is a wild post. It's so funny. Uh, Terrence Tao, AI creates more room to experiment, test unexpected paths, and discover what might otherwise stay out of touch. Terrence Tao, goat mathematician from UCLA. Uh, very fun to see him talking about his process, where he's still seeing value, how he's using models. He talks about this a lot. A lot of times it just allows him to flesh out his work, build a chart that he wouldn't otherwise build. Very synergistic, fully in like the Centaur uh centaur uh centaur era. Uh I don't know who got paid to say what, but that ad is sponsored by OpenAI. I think it's best to show real results. That's so interesting. This is so funny. Anyway, uh what else is going on in the timeline? Joe Wisenthal has something. price of whey is going bananas. It's a protein crisis. This is not good. >> So, so >> what's going on? >> Here's what's a little funny. >> Okay, break it down. >> We know why the price of whey is going bananas. We don't need Joe to tell us. It's because Joe is going bananas on his weight consumption. >> Oh, you think he is responsible? >> I think he's the problem. He's like, we're all trying to figure out who did this. >> He has been looking bigger. >> Much bigger. >> His traps specifically, they've been eating his head. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. and he has those Death Star delts on his on on the cap on the shoulders. It's really it's really crazy. And the lats when he does the lat spread on oddlots, it's it gets it gets aggressive. Uh it's a little too much. So cool with the way Joe. Uh but here we have some news. In earlier May, in early May, a supplier delivered bad news to baking and beverage company Hello Amino. It had run out of whey protein. Canada based Hello Amino uses the ingredient in all of the 30 high protein baking mixes. it it sells. Founder Al All Ali Swift found another supplier, but it means importing whey protein isolate from the US at a price that's 50% higher and due to increase again soon. The new whey protein delivered other complications that dried out the company's baking goods due to the manufacturers's different processing methods. That's true. A lot of different ingredients will change the the output. Not all whey is created equal. Our pancakes came out like sawdust. Swift said the company plans to reformulate using different combination of proteins. protein had has really leaked into everything. Um, I have not I have not found I I I've been surprised whenever I see the trend pieces about like protein's packed with everything. Everything has protein in it because I feel like I don't know. I haven't like it hasn't snuck into that many of the things that I eat throughout the day. Like there isn't protein in my diet. Coke. I don't know what I don't know what else I consume. But uh this whole trend of like proteinpacked like cereals and and you know salads and lunches and dinners and proteinpacked pastas and stuff. I never really kind of stuck with the normal stuff. >> Yeah. The idea that you know if you eat one you know two to three you know solid meals a day you have some protein that you also need to be snacking on protein. Yeah in between is just insane. It's completely unnecessary. >> I don't know. Protein shake gets it done. Uh well, let's check in with one of the nation's largest largest mortgage lenders. Yes. >> Because they've launched they're an athleisure clothing line. >> Okay. >> Guaranteed rate has rolled out rate fit, a wellnessdriven lifestyle brand. They were the seventh largest mortgage lender in the country last year. Colin is baffled. >> I had to check if this was real. Is it? >> And ratefitit.com. It is. You can get a uh you can get pretty much all the things that you would get over at uh a Lululemon who launches Aloe or Bori >> 20% time project or something. >> I bet you I bet you this was uh >> April Fool's joke. >> No, I bet you this was this was just Shopify is just so good at sales. >> They were doing a little outbound campaign and they're like, "Sorry, we're a mortgage lender. like we we're not really set up. >> Maybe it's a rogue agent. Maybe someone just, you know, at at guaranteed rate just said like >> make money. >> Make my business make money. And it was just like, I'll set up a Shopify store and contact a distributor and a manufacturer. You're now in the clothing business. Uh how long until that happens? I don't know. Uh any any day now, I'm sure. I'm sure. Uh the sooner I get a Porsche, the better for my mental health. Good luck, Mason Hughes. Uh good luck on your on your Porsche uh pursuit. Maybe a very depreciated TYON, cheaper than you think, right? >> There you go. >> Uh the fact Eleazar isn't al isn't looks maxing is the ultimate condemnation of rationalism. Um people have tal asked about this before. Uh he should get into looks maxing. Why not? Why not? Uh it's a good time. Uh well uh I had another question come up from a friend of the show about uh why are companies filing IPOs confidentially? Uh it's an interesting question and I sort of pull tugged on the thread. Uh Liz Hoffman was talking about this a little bit. Uh so Anthropic confidentially submitted a draft S1 registration statement to the SEC June 1st. That was yesterday. Liz Hoffman said reminder that the ability to confidentially file an IPO was a 2012 rule change meant to ease small companies meaning less than a billion dollars of revenue into the markets. And it was later expanded to what we're uh >> meant to be like um like a smoke grenade. >> A smoke grenade. Let you talk to investors before you get out. Do we change the camera? Um but I I I so she asked the question of like what are we even doing here? And I was curious like what are we doing here? Like why why do all these companies file confidentially and then the S1 comes out? This is what SpaceX did. It's not like anthropics unique in this. This is very much standard practice at this point. But how do we get here? And why is this good? Do I like this? I don't know. Let's find out. So, uh, first the basics. Uh, confidential IPO filing. It doesn't mean that you IPO in secret. Uh, it means the company submits a draft S1 to the SEC for private staff review SEC employees. It's a smoke grenade. Yeah. Uh, great analogy. Uh, before releasing the perspectus uh, on Edgar, which then every hedge fund can download, anyone can download, it becomes public. Uh, so this lets companies run the SEC review process while keeping the sensitive financial details private. And there's a few reasons why you want might want to do that. So any regulatory stumbling blocks can be dealt with in advance. And so the final filing is clean and ready to go. SpaceX did the same thing, filing a draft submission confidentially before the public S1 dropped uh a week or two ago. So after the 2008 financial crisis, this is where this all starts. there's a lot of regulation that results from the uh fallout. Sarbain Oxley is the main one. Uh and the financial markets slowly built back and started opening up as the economy rebuilt. So uh uh post DoddFrank, post Sarbain Oxley, you get a lot of regulation and then over the next few decades, certain pieces get relitigated, renegotiated, and different paths open up to slightly less regulatory burdensome uh pathways uh in the financial markets. And so before 2012, the S1 became public early in the process, which was great for journalists who wanted to report on IPOs. Uh it wasn't really that beneficial to very many other people. Um but it raised the stakes for companies because if anything was off, uh it could result in a botched IPO, which would be damaging for morale. You know, you you you hear that your company filed publicly and immediately something comes up and you can't fix it. So then you have to pull back and it's seen as uh seen damaging seen seen as weakness. No one wants to be running a company that publicly failed to IPO. And so in 2012 the Jobs Act passed and they created a new class of company with some relaxed filing requirements. These are called emerging growth companies. It's defined by the SEC. They're called EGC's. And EGC's were defined as any company with less than a billion in revenue. Later it was inflation adjusted to be 1.235 billion. But that doesn't really matter though because in 2017 staff at the SEC under Trump 1 uh explained uh expanded the confidential filing flow to include all issuers not just EGC's. So anyone no matter how much your revenue was you could go through this process and so the drop the jobs act was driven by Republicans but broadly supported and the 2017 change happened under Trump won but again it didn't face strong opposition. So private market investors like IPOs for liquidity. VCs love to come on the show and do a victory lap when they take a company public and it's great to return capital to LPs. And then on the other side, public market investors like access to more names. So, it's sort of win-win. Uh in 2017, this was a huge year for huge large growth stage companies. These decacorns, you had Uber, Airbnb, Door Dash, Palanteer, they were all well past the billion dollar revenue threshold. But there was still a lot of uncertainty about how the market would value these companies because they had sort of new business models. There were some questions about different margin profiles, how the market would price these. There weren't direct comps to Uber and Airbnb already in the market. Are you going to just trade Airbnb like it's a hotel chain? Not really. It's asset light. So, the market needs to digest that. And confidentially filing was beneficial and it was encouraging to these companies to say, "Yeah, we'll go try the IPO thing because it's less burdensome." So, >> Stripe should file confidentially for IPO, but then never actually go for >> I think that's a Collison and Brother nightmare. I think they wake up in cold sweats behind. >> No, I know, but but it would be kind of funny to like confidentially file, but then >> just pull it back. >> Let it just let it just kind of sit there for for another decade. >> Troll troll IPO. Uh, so the confidential filing rules were expanded again in 2025 under Trump 2 SEC staff to include other financial offerings. So, new issuance of stock, other classes of securities, these things can be reviewed before going out in the market. This allows companies to test the waters on follow-on financings, spin-offs, other capital markets transactions. You can go and test the waters. Uh, so there's no question that companies are staying private longer. Everyone knows this. The private markets are incredibly deep driven both by mega fundraisers from the largest venture capital firms, crossover investors from like hedge funds coming into the market and then also plenty activity plenty of activity from the hyperscalers and strategics who can write a 10 billion dollar check into a private company. No problem. Um so the end result is that the public markets have been lo the public markets have been losing companies to private markets for years. Uh exchanges don't want this. Public markets investors don't want this. And so, uh, there's a huge demand to make p uh, make going public less painful. Confidential filings don't fully obscure investor protections because all the traditional data needs to be released before any money changes hands, but it speeds up the time to market and increases coordination between private companies and their future shareholders in public markets. And so, that's why uh, why companies are allowed to file confidentially. And I don't know, after reading that, I don't really have a problem with it. you let us know. What do you think? Should it be illegal? Should it be straight to jail if you if you file confidentially? I don't know. We can roll it back. >> Couple more notes before our first guest. Yeah. Uh Joe Weisenthal is reporting that on the eve of the IPO, SpaceX employees are organizing more than a thousand current and former SpaceX employees have banded together to negotiate with wealth management firms for better pricing >> and access to sophisticated tax-saving financial products ahead of the IPO. Uh >> interesting. I I imagine the wealth management firms are thrilled about this. They were uh joking, of course. >> Very fun. >> Um one more note. Um Friday IPOs. >> Yeah. >> Alibaba. >> Okay. >> Uber. >> Oo, big ones. >> And Meta. >> Oh, >> all on Friday. >> Okay. Very interesting. I think there's going to be a lot of fanfare. If the images in the S1 were anything to uh judge, I think that uh like the actual coverage will be a spectacle. We will see uh Starbase in full force. It will be a lot of a lot of great entertainment and uh a pretty wild day. Pretty wild day for the for the for financial history. Uh before we bring in our next guest, let me tell you about MongoDB. What's the only thing faster than the AI market your business on MongoDB? Don't just build AI, own the data platform that powers it. And without further ado, we can bring in Jack Duhan. He is the founder and CEO of Muse. Welcome to the show. How you doing, Jack? >> Doing well, thanks. How are you guys? >> Thank you so much for taking the time to talk. Great to have you on. Great to speak. >> Why don't you kick us off with a little bit of an introduction on yourself? >> Certainly. No, thanks. Thanks for having me on, boys. Um myself, a bit of a whirlwind last 12 months sort of my whole life. Um been driving towards being a Formula 1 driver. Yeah. Um so, you know, in in in that realm, let's say. And >> I was always in the mindset of doing one thing properly or two things averely, right? Um so I always wanted to wanted to build and wanted to do many things but that was full focus. um ended up getting to Formula 1 the end of 2024 for the final round Abu Dhabi um signed for for three years which was um you know obviously a huge huge thing for for me and and from a kid from Australia and then yeah six races into that season sort of sidelined for some circumstances um outside of my control let's say and it was a big it was a big moment for me of realizing not that you're set right you're never you're never set in stone nothing's ever guaranteed Um but I definitely thought with security with the three years and with how things work um that that it was a little bit more stable. So um it was a big reality check. I said okay for what I'm locking into for the next you know for for my life and what I'm carrying you know the next 10 20 years is not going to be from something that's decided by by these political circumstances. Um so then to be honest I had an interest in AI since late 2020. I was teaching myself to code since 2019 on a low basis definitely not I'm not engineering behind the behind Muse at all. So um but just on a from understanding and then um ended up founding Muse sort of at the end of December um doing some small passive tech investments setting up some SPVS and some opportunities but uh yeah it's crazy the distribution that has been gathered now since being actually in this paddic and and around this world. Yeah, I I want to talk about uh tech and business. Uh but I have two questions about uh racing. First, uh I'd love to know a little bit more about your early path. Did you go through the typical uh cart racing, Formula 3? Like walk me through the steps to actually get to F1. Uh a little bit of the history there. And then I I I would love your your view on like the future of the sport, where things are now, what's changed, what you've observed as you've been probably not just competing in F1, but also a fan. >> Yeah. No, certainly, you know, started from carding as you mentioned. Um then the sort of in Australia there's you have a ceiling, you know, like I guess like any small like any not small country, we're a big country. We're 25 million million populations compared to the US. um you know very very different um but you always have the goal of of of going to the top of what you're doing and even for the partying the main space was Europe so that's where the world championships were the European championships were so as a kid I always wanted to be >> over here um ended up moving over um on my own when I was 13 just before I was 14 years old did a year of carting um was then picked up by the Red Bull um for >> on your own that means like you said see you to your parents or what did that look Like >> it was the first seven days was with my father and then I was on my then I was on my own with like people that my that was sort of connected into this into the in the European region. Um and then >> still that's that's wild. >> That's crazy. >> It was it was weird. I you know I think when I when I came over I was wearing shorts when I was in Europe and the guys who were mentoring me said I look too you know I look too Australian. Um I remember >> I remember I walked in I was 13y old kid. I walked in the go-kart track and it was the first time in I was in Europe and there was a Scottish guy who was mentoring me and I walked in I high-fived a couple kids and I sat down into my into my awning and he looks at me and he goes, "What was that?" And I I said, "What do you mean?" And he's like, "You know, you're you're you're happy you're high-fiving. What was that?" I said, "Oh, they're just my friends." He looks at me and he goes, "The only friend you need is me. There's no other friend, you know, like you know, if you're gonna >> There's no friends out there >> on the track." >> Honest honestly. And I went I just came from Australia where we're racing and then we come off on our scooters, we're running around, we're having fun, you know, and then you know racing and obviously it's it's fully competitive but it wasn't to that aspect. So it was a big wake up and uh and the the realm to get there and then climbed up um Formula 4, Formula 3, um Formula 2 and then was a reserve driver in 2024 for the Alpine team and then mid year um July signed for the three years. That's great. >> Uh where how how important was uh the sim during that time? Did it become more important, you know, throughout that early part of your racing career when you're kind of moving up the ranks? >> Uh or was it important the entire time? >> It's it's important the entire time. I guess like the simulators we have obviously at home or or to an extent on a junior level are very obviously on a low cal on low caliber. Um, when you're a reserve driver, you're you're doing the sim overnight on on your Saturdays. So, you're typically at the track on a Friday. You do the first free practice session, the free practice session 2, and then you'll fly back to the factory, do the simulator from, let's say, 6:00 p.m. until 3:00 a.m. Um, so all of the things they wanted to try throughout Friday that they weren't able to then try >> overnight because they have curfew. So, they obviously can't then the engineers can't keep working towards. So, you're working it overnight and then I'd get in, you know, a transfer, head straight to the airport and then head back to the track to sort of um deliver this and and more in a driver's perspective rather than just engineering um engineering feedback that's been delivered. So, >> it's very rare. >> So, you're so you're not flying you're not flying commercial in that situation, right? >> No, unfortunately. Unfortunately, yeah. um like a 65. >> I mean, it's just crazy cuz it's it seems like a pretty tight window, you know? You're you're going >> to the factory, getting on the sim, getting off, headed straight to the airport, but then I imagine you're arriving shortly before the race on Sunday, right? >> Yeah. It just means not great um or let's say preferable flat times and uh and and options of um of of sleep. But, uh, it's it's weird like you dread it and then you get to like like your 12, your midnight, your 1:00 a.m. it's tough and then you sort of then push through your coffees deep. You're you're also doing some cool things. Um, and uh, and you enjoy it, you know, definitely after a while and uh, it's not, you know, doesn't become, you know, you get some bad time zones like when you're doing, you're in the UK and you're doing for Australia or you're in, well, the Sims always in UK doing Mexico, some weird places where you're having to do some very um, strange time >> Brian Johnson's nightmare. >> So, >> literally no good therapy there. So uh I mean throughout this whole process you're also uh learning about technology I'm sure meeting people thinking about the company uh what is your uh workflow like? What is your free time? Does it track with seasons? Does it track with certain days of the week? Do you have downtime where it just doesn't make sense to put any more time on the track or in the simulator? And so you do have free time. Like what is the work life balance like as you're sort of grinding up the ranks? I imagine it's pretty full tilt, but you obviously had a little bit of time to think about what was next. >> Yeah, exactly. I like to think about it now because I went from that being being my full my full life. Um, and you had very little time off in the sense of every one of your spare days was a marketing day or was a media day or as a partnership day. And then if you did have then a free day than it was more time on the sim or doing more correlation and not doing it effectively, you'll be going back to maybe a race six six races ago and and redoing things with what you have now and how that's changed. And then when you had time off though it was off, right? It was fully just like you know you were completely done. Um where now I'm I'm reserved driver for this year doing 10 races. Um it's you know what will be what will be with what might might happen but I'm very limited on the control that I have on getting back into the car. >> Sure. >> Um so I'm not you know I'm not they only have x amount of time with simulators. I'm not on the sim. I'm currently not testing. So when I'm here or if I'm off and as I guess you are when you're in this world it's never fully off, right? Even if you are on the weekends or away you're constantly um still taking that 2 a.m. call. You're still you know working through things. there's still communication going on. So, it was quite a difference. You didn't have any flatout commitments of these partnership gi, you know, you're constantly doing something. >> Is is part of what uh attracted you to entrepreneurship is um like I feel like the the challenge in Formula 1, uh there's only, you know, in entrepreneurship you're getting like nos all the time and and you're and you're sometimes you get an opportunity, sometimes you don't. Uh but in Formula 1, you're like almost entirely reliant. There's like a set number of teams on the grid. There's a lot of stuff that's out of your control. Whereas in entrepreneurship, there's a lot of stuff that's out of control. But if you get a no from one customer or one investor or a hire you want to make, there's always like another one and you can keep working towards where I feel like as an athlete, it can be very frustrating where you're like, I'm doing everything that I possibly can and yet I'm relying on these external parties in order to push my career forward. Does that does that resonate at all? >> Yeah, massively. I think even even once you're a Formula 1 driver and you can be in a you can be in an airtight situation, your your seat is always for sale in essence, right? Like uh you know, maybe not depending there might not be any buyers that are able to to compete with with the ticket size that you're sitting on, but there's never any certainty, right? At the end of the day, you're an employee. You're you're still contracted. Um you can be fired. Um yes, that can happen in entrepreneur stakes if you're CEO, founder. depends on your structure, how you, you know, what stage things are at. Um, but I definitely wanted to be, like I said, more in in control. Um, and I've been through, you know, although I'm young, I'm not I'm not super young anymore any anymore. Um, but still young and been through um quite a lot of of let's say networking and navigating different realms, whether it is, you know, whether it's, you know, trying to source a client and know in a specific region. Um, for instance, the old CEO of the Alpine from LA team didn't really read the media. didn't watch the news but he just specifically had a little newspaper for his local town in Italy that he always read each morning. So I ensured that you know what I was doing in my testing and my work that was getting correlated was made sure that it was published in that specific newspaper because I knew >> right >> and it's the same thing if you're trying to you know target a market um in Mina or in India the Philippines um that are overlooked on the west you know by by let's say west innovation or or the technology and looking at things from a different perspective I think these are all like aspects that I've learned that sort of tried to target have a scope on things that I wouldn't have known at all. >> So, uh tell us more about Muse and tell me specifically like why this company like what was the what was the opportunity discovery moment? Yeah, I think um you know what I wanted to do was solving like a little bit of the fragmentation issue um for your you know non let's say high enterprise um institutions but that they have everything aggregated have have these things that are together in order to then implement and optimize AI. >> Um so I didn't really know where that was. it was quite horizontal um of of that factor um you know especially targeting um your like I said um your let's say lower served countries whether that's South America Brazil um India Philippines or things that are more fragmented Indonesia and our first contract um came actually in the food and beverage space with Oakberry um which is an asai asai company >> and uh it was an extreme like eye opener of how many systems that they run on how you know how they don't communicate how things are just not you know tracked obviously over three full days because your inputters your your tracking sources are 17 18 year old kids whether it's a oak barrier or whether it's a QSR your your employees that you're managing and that you're relying on to track all this reliable data that you end up will be having automated or optimized was done by someone who doesn't really want to be there who is checking in you know at the latest point and is checking out at the earliest point um and things are not being done with you know, with with let's say top level accuracy. Um, so that's where we wanted to really tighten down and thought if we're going to try to do many other things, um, especially in this realm, it's so important to find that trust. And so we really wanted to niche down and capture one vertical properly. Um, and uh, as you know, as we could dive into it, you just get further and further into the rabbit hole of finding your niche, right? And and getting into the area where you really want to solve. Um and it went from okay supporting on agents for you know your POS systems, your inventory, your waste, your um your invoicing um and then finding that none of this can be optimized until these are communicating because each QSR system is using between 16 to 80 different software systems you know can be very very large that all third parties um and none of them obviously are coerced none of them communicate all this data is fragmented so no AI agent let's say or AI is going to be wrong on proprietary data unless it has access to all of it at one time. Um, and your big institutions, your Burger King, your Restaurant Brands International, McDonald's are very tech forward. They have their own agents, but they're only accessing menu queries, um, maybe staff training. Um, and because in order to aggregate all that data, it would mean, you know, shutting some part of their system down to do it. >> Is it hard to get uh, companies to pay for this? I feel like a lot of the traction in SMB restaurant uh it's driven by the POSOS system like toast because you just take a small cut of the credit card fee and it's sort of like this invisible cost that then can scale really dynamically. But if you're going in and you're saying I'm going to sell a solution like how are you justifying actually getting someone to open up and put down a credit card or pay uh for a recurring service which I imagine is the business model. >> Yeah, definitely. You know it's it's not easy on the aspect if you think you come in and you're trying to sell something that is oh this is better than what you currently have right by going to replace X they get pitched how many tech you know tech software has daily emails come through that what we have is better than what you have um use and and not them we have a great AI agent for FnB false you know fast no one no one's got a good AI agent until operating on the data um but what we're trying to operate is it's like headless as default right it's an underlying layer um that is almost like super good. So uh in essence AI cloud systems um whether you want to call it a company brain where it's unifying all their current systems into one um aggregated location which then if they're not optimizing AI as long as we have at least three months of that data um you know up towards three years then we're able to you know really act and and create for that or if it's your your larger companies who have already an agent with Burger King BK assistant or others then you're feeding this let's say aggregated and and orchestrated data to this agent which before they're all individual third party softwares and now they're in one hub which can be orchestrated. They're all communicating together and you're actually going to get that optimization. >> Got it. >> Um so it's much easier to sell like that than actually saying this platform is going to replace what you have let's say. >> Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, >> uh last question please. How's how's the grid reacting to the luch? >> The luch >> the far Ferrari luche the new electric vehicle from Ferrari just locked in. He's like luch >> $4,000 US. >> Uh it's a steal for a second. Something like that. Um >> it does sound like that. Um, no. I think, uh, look, um, I'm with um, and we we have a, you know, a relationship with, we're running a Ferrari engine, so I think it's amazing. It looks terrific. >> It's unbelievable. Um, >> couldn't agree more. >> Um, cannot bless it more. I'm sure we'll chat about that more, Jordy. But guys, um, I'm sure that's my time, so it's great to >> Yeah. So great to meet you. I love I love uh I love the energy and the focus and uh >> uh let's do it again soon. >> Yeah, we'll talk to you. >> Awesome. Have a good one. >> Cheers. >> Uh let me tell you all about Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform that grows with your business and lets you sell in seconds online, in store, on mobile, on social, on marketplaces, and now with AI agents. >> You heard it from Jack. >> Uh I think our next guest is joining in just a minute. But uh in the meantime, we can talk about the AI executive order. This was signed today by the president. And Dean Ball has some uh some context here. He says, "Wow, this EO is almost exactly similar to the leaked text from the EO uh the president chose not to sign because it was too regulatory. The only major difference is that the voluntary pre-eployment review process is now only 30 days rather than 90 days. That's a concession, but a very small one compared to what I would have expected based on the president's remarks about the earlier draft. So, uh, if you haven't been following along, uh, AI companies will be able to voluntarily submit their new models to the US government for review. Now, they will, the government will get back to them in 30 days as opposed to 90 days, evaluate them, and make a call or give advice or give some sort of commentary. Every word that comes from the government is a potential lawsuit in the future. and so or will show up in a potential lawsuit. And so you can expect uh a lot of thought and care given to whatever the uh whatever the government responds to. A lot of government applications from the FDA previously uh the the the response would be uh no comment and no comment is tacid approval. the the FDA with some products with uh a lot of uh uh nutritional supplements and uh food ingredients, they don't necessarily want to say this is FDA approved because that's a very high bar. There's a lot of regulatory and and risk and legal uh ramifications from approving something, but they can decline to uh to comment. They can decline to to uh to not permit the company to move forward. And I would expect that even a small uh uh even a small result like we sent them their model, they reviewed it for 30 days and they didn't say it was bad uh will be a good signal for AI labs that submit through this process. So but Dean Ball continues. He says this is a fair fairly major win for the safety contingent within the admin and a significant loss for the Sachs accelerationist wing and is surprising to me. I continue to think this EO is a mistake. the clear the this is clearly teeing up the infrastructure for a model licensing regime and the fact that the administration is classifying the new detail the the details of how this voluntary system work will work is egregious. So everyone wants to know what are they going to be evaluating? Are they going to be doing you know ARGI tests or some other benchmark or humanity's last exam or just red teaming it or just talking to it? Who knows? Uh it's classified. Everyone is interested to know. Dean Ball certainly interested to know, but we don't know yet. But maybe in the future. Uh the public, he continues, the public and the employees of the labs have a right to know how this works. It is very frustrating when you're interacting with the federal government and you don't know their rubric for grading you. That is one of the most frustrating pieces of going back and forth with the regulatory body. It's best when there's a very clear test for the DMV. You show up. If you know the answers to the questions, you get a driver's license. if you don't if they were like, "We test you on a mystery rubric. That would be very frustrating for anyone looking for a driver's license." He continues, "Uh, most lab staff don't have clearances, but some do." Uh, but if the literal regulatory thresholds that trigger pre-eployment review or classified researchers themselves won't know whether they are what they are training is regulated by this EO, all for the benefit that is barely articulable. Uh, what exactly is the intelligence community going to do in 30 days to make the model safer? I don't know, they could there's a lot of tests you could run in 30 days. Uh, you know, try and hack this thing, try and design a bioweapon. These are things people are worried about. In 30 days, you can certainly get these models to attempt those and see how they respect uh see how they respond. So, he says it's not a huge mistake, but a small medium-sized one, but I am fairly confident this is a mistake nonetheless. Well, we will dig into it more in the future, but our next guest is here in the waiting room. We have Nate Kavanagh from Special. He is the co-founder. Welcome to the show. both of you, please introduce yourselves and tell us about the company. >> Hey guys, good to see you. Appreciate you having us. >> Yeah, great to have you on. >> Yeah, my my name is Nate Kavanagh. Uh Justin Fox is my co-founder on the line. Um >> we today we were excited to announce uh Special, which is a a new holding company that we really view um as an extension of the work we did at Doge. So Justin and I worked together at the Department of Government Efficiency for the past year. >> Yeah. >> But we're now building effectively Doge but for the private sector. And so >> we're focused on this 10 trillion dollar main street services economy which in in many ways of like the federal government. It's massive. It's inefficient. >> Um and in a lot of cases is still funded in part at least by the government. And so we announced that today and excited to chat with you guys about it. >> Do you have a particular industry that you want to focus on? Do you want to be general? I mean, I see this loosely in the bucket of management consulting, delayering, understanding inefficiencies. There's there there's a triedand-rue track record. I'm interested to hear how you're differentiating from other management consulting firms that might already be doing some of this work for large companies. Uh but then also I'm interested to know where you're focusing, where you see the most opportunity. >> Yeah, it's a good question. I mean the the the main point of differentiation is uh there's two components to special business model. So special is developing a set of AI tools that we can apply to these main street industries. We're starting with healthcare and more specifically a bet on the aging population demographic of the US. >> And so we identified that as our first vertical. We're actually incubating a new brand to become category leader and we're going out and acquiring these great independent small businesses and applying those AI tools into the businesses that then we will uh we will own forever. Yeah. >> So we just to guess are these like Medicare related businesses >> hospital or like a primary care or like a urgent care like what what are we actually talking about in terms of healthare? >> The specific market is at home senior care. So it would be a nurse going to a senior citizen's house provide them with care in the home. It's the lowest cost way to provide care for senior citizens in the country. >> And as I'm sure you guys have seen there's a lot of fraud in Medicare and Medicaid. We're focused on trying to provide the nurses, the critical workers in these industries with the best AI tools so that they can provide better care for for seniors. >> And there's probably a lot of back office work that goes into scheduling and all of those things can be enhanced with AI tools, I imagine. >> That's exactly right, >> Jordy. >> Uh yeah, why why a holdco? I'm curious like this feels like healthcare is like, you know, multi-million dollar industry >> started. You guys sounds like you have a playbook that you feel like can be applied across different categories, but is healthcare not big enough for you guys. >> Justin, you want to take this? >> Yeah, look, first of all, it's great to be on with you guys today. Look, I I think >> you know w with special at the top parent co and developing these AI tools, I think, you know, to limit sort of the expertise that we've learned from Doge and from um prior careers to just healthcare, I think would be narrow. You know, the point of having the parent co with engineering talent is that we can deploy into multiple verticals. And so, I mean, as as you can imagine, the main street economy is massive. And so, if we're just going to address healthcare, I think that's that's too narrow. And frankly, there's there's so many independent business owners that we're looking to problem solve for. So, Nate alluded to it, but you know, Figure is going to be or Figure is our newly incubated strategic brand in healthcare. And so that brand is going to inevitably be carrying the torch for these uh business owners through development of AI. So we're going to be working handinhand in the weeds with these operators uh to develop the tools that they need to succeed. >> How do you think about uh the size of a company that you want to acquire and fold in? Obviously there's some organizations that have already been sort of rolled up. They're large. They're private. There's probably public companies that you could do a take private of at the biggest scale. There's also uh probably very small businesses with owner operators who might be getting older looking for liquidity like what is in your strike zone? >> Yeah, it's a great question. I mean today we announced our new financing led by Andre and Horowitz and a lot of our Doge teammates, guys like Steve Davis, Antonio Gracius. We and we in that same announcement announced our first acquisition that's under contract. It's a it's a business that's doing we'll say tens of millions of dollars in annual revenue. They have about 1500 senior patients that they care for and about 200 nurses on the payroll. So, it's a pretty big business based in Texas. >> Um, and we we have a pipeline of others that we plan to do. So, I'd say it's a business where it already has some u some management sophisticated sophistication and some real scale >> um but is not at the scale of doing a public take private. >> Yeah. Out of curiosity, how like is there significant like how significant is the back office like opex because I imagine like you know seniors want to be cared for by individuals. I imagine they don't want to just like jump on a a Zoom call and and get care that way. Um, so is is uh is this a play that you think you can use AI to grow the business much faster and you feel like there's uh significant sort of back office savings or like where do you think you'll get the most return? >> Justin, go ahead. >> Yeah, look, I I I think what we're not what we're not suggesting is that a robot is going to replace a nurse in in grandma's home. That that's not at all the case here. >> Yeah. Look, I I think you know when we think about the the delivery of service, you know, if that takes up about 50% of the costs to pay your nurses, there's something like, you know, 40% of the remaining dollars are getting spent on a lot of administrative tasks that can be solved with AI. And so our view, you know, the way that we think about it at Figure is let's make the jobs of our back office team members easier and instead of what maybe a traditional PE or strategic would do, which is pocket those savings and and market a huge margin accretion, let's share those savings with our workers. So one of the things that's unique about this space is there's a massive shortage of nurses and caregivers. And so to the extent that you can be in a market and be able to pay your team the most, everybody will flood into your business. And so then you can provide care for this millions of Americans who sometimes don't have access to it. So that's the underlying thesis. I think it's share the pie, grow the pie with everybody and it'll help you grow and deliver better service. >> And Jord to your point, this is the playbook that we plan to replicate across not just healthcare, but markets like construction, manufacturing, other very labor intensive, highly regulated markets that a lot of the learnings we had from Doge can then get applied back into the private sector. >> Yeah. more leverage on the key workers that are doing the most important tasks, the things that are actually aligned with the mission and more efficient back offices. >> Um, no sense. >> You guys sticking with a 5day work week. >> It's been a hot debate. >> I got a feeling you guys might be putting in a few more hours. >> I don't think we're as um we're somewhere between 5 days in and corgi. Uh I think is a >> that feels healthy. That feels sustainable. >> Jennifer of tattoos, I suppose. Never go a tattoo. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Congratulations and thank you so much for coming. >> Yeah. Thanks for coming on, guys. Congrats on on the the the raise and I'm sure you'll be back on with more news soon. >> Have a great rest of your day. >> Appreciate it, guys. Thanks. >> Goodbye. >> Up next, we have Tom Mueller from Impulse Space. He's the founder, CEO, and CTO. Two job titles, three job titles. We're very excited to have Tom Mueller back on the show. Uh, he's been on before, but great to see you. How are you doing? >> I'm doing great. Great to see you guys. >> First question, Ferrari Luch reactions. What you got? >> What I got? What do I have? >> Ferrari Luche reactions. Ferrari Luche. The electric Ferrari. It's coming out $640,000. Do you think it's underpriced? Overpriced? What do you think? >> Uh, overpriced for overpriced for that styling. It is. It is a It is an odd It is an odd positioning, but uh it got everyone talking. >> I think the F40 is going to hold value. I don't think it's going to be an F40 disruptor. Not many people trading those in. Anyway, we're not here to talk about Ferrari. We're here to talk about impulse space. Uh can you uh reset the table for us? Uh reintroduce the company, give us the news, tell us what's happening, and then I have a million questions about the space broadly, but let's kick it off with that. >> Impulse Base. I started this company 5 years ago. It's uh space mobility >> success >> which basically means that um we take over where launch leaves off. So >> um we move things around in space. So start starting at LEO we move things up to to GEO like 20 up to 22,000 mi up. We can you know take things to the to the moon. We can greatly increase the amount of payloads you can take to Mars. Um we have our Mirror spacecraft. Three of those are flying uh right now and a bunch are in build. >> Yeah, >> those things uh do precision maneuvering in orbit. They can host payloads, they can deploy payloads, they can do rendevous. >> Um we are hope hopefully we'll get um onramped onto the the new lunar um cargo uh program and do big some ton uh one ton class uh lunar landers. Um it's a lot happening right now. I can imagine. Um, uh, so there's been so much excitement about LEO, Starlink, uh, Planet Labs, you put a camera up there, you put a Wi-Fi router up there, basically, not to simplify too much, but, uh, even Varta manufacturing in LEO, like all so much of the attention's been on LEO that I think a lot of people have sort of lost the reference classes for what happens in higher orbits. Can you give us some examples of what's interesting at higher orbits? Whether that's uh Middle Earth orbit, I think, is that what it's called? Mio. >> Yeah, Mio. >> Middle Earth is just hilarious because it's a Lord of the Rings reference, but uh Mio uh Geo, I understand geostationary orbits are sometimes useful, but give us the 101 on why someone would be unsatisfied with just uh yoloing endless satellites into LEO in perpetuity. Well, the nice thing about geo uh you know is where where really comat started is that you can cover the whole earth with just three satellites. >> Oh, that's right. >> Um and and of course geo geocynchronous means or geostationary means that it's a 24-hour orbit. So you're you're always located at the same point in the sky. Super important. Still an important um uh uh orbit. um it's kind of been overshadowed by all the LEO launches, but there's still um you know, a dozen uh launches or more that that go uh to that orbit. It's becoming more important of an orbit for the space force. >> Um there's a lot happening up there. >> Yeah. >> Um that I don't even know about. I don't have the need to know, but there's a lot going on up there >> and um you know, our adversaries, China and Russia are maneuvering around our satellites up there. So, we need to we need to go to to have mobility to go up there and and defend and find out what's going on and be able to >> protect our assets. >> So, we have we have the capability to get to geo. Obviously, there are satellites currently in GIO. You mentioned there's maybe a dozen launches that sounded annual like maybe something like going up there. So we have the capability like the rockets exist but it's uneconomical and so the the value prop of impulse just to say it back to you is get on a rocket that's going to LEO but end up in geo and not and you don't need to pull all of those resources and so uh you're sort of unlocking geo based on all of the LEO capability that we have in spades. Is that right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, what we're talking about here is our Helios product, which is >> what we call a rocket on a rocket. We add basically a third stage to a Falcon 9. >> It's got 12 tons of liquid oxygen and liquid methane, very high performance uh uh p pump pump fed stage combustion engine, >> and it can get you from LEO to GEO in a day. So, it basically uh helps Falcon 9 do what Falcon Heavy does. >> Yeah. >> For tens of millions of dollars less. >> Yep. or for an an example of a you know commercial guys usually don't fly on heavy they'll they'll fly Falcon 9 and then they'll spend months using electric propulsion to get to to where they want to get we'll get you there realized that I didn't realize that was an option that's so interesting uh I'll have to I'll have to research more of that I'm fascinated by that uh talk to me about how Starship changes things for you is that an accelerant for you I mean you're raising a $500 million series D I can imagine and you worked at SpaceX obviously for a very long time I imagine that that's not a nail in the coffin, that's not a threat, but I imagine it's a benefit. But how is it a benefit? Because uh the the intuitive, you know, uh the the lay person might think bigger rocket that'll get me to go easily that that why do I need impulse now? So talk to me about how Starship fits into the future of the space economy. >> I mean, Starship is the, you know, is going to be the the ultimate uh LEO um you know, >> workload. Yeah. cargo ship. >> Yeah, because it it you know it's it doesn't need to refuel. Yeah. Um to get to LEO. It can get to LEO and be fully reusable, come back and fuel and go again. >> Yeah. >> So, it's going to greatly reduce the cost uh per kilogram or per ton to get um to get cargo to to orbit. And that's that's why I started the company basically cuz I worked on Starship the you know last six years I was there >> realizing that now we have such an efficient way like I mentioned at the beginning launch is solved now we need to figure out how to move all that cargo around um once it's up in orbit. Of course, Starship can refuel and go to these high energy orbits, but I think it's going to be more effic if you need Starship there, that's what you need to do. Like if like if you're taking cargo to the moon or humans to the moon or to Mars, you that's the right thing. But if I don't know that it's the right thing if you don't actually need the Starship up there because if you think about it, Starship's 120 tons of stainless steel you got to bring up there >> and and then you got to bring it back to get it back. So it it comes uh we'll see h how that how how the economics work out. >> Okay. Speaking >> how did uh how did uh the space sort of like founder uh startup community react to blue origin obviously you know massive setback and disappointing uh hopefully for all humanity. >> I don't think anybody was cheering that on. It's I mean it's obviously bad for industry. um launch is, you know, is still constrained. Even though SpaceX is flying so often, there's just so many payloads that need to go that we need all of them to be successful. And I think it's been mentioned many times, SpaceX is not going to lower their price until they have a true competitor >> and we need true competitors to come online. It's happening, but um you know, these setbacks delay it. >> Yeah. >> What uh what have you heard around how big of a setback it actually is? Is this setting the program? Dave Dave Lamp, the CEO, just um I think last night tweeted that they think they can it's not as bad as it initially looked and they they think they can fly again this year, which is great. It's great news. >> Yeah, I was looking at the aerial photography of the launchpad and the the headline was billiond dollar launchpad, the only one they have completely destroyed, but some of the buildings looked pretty usable. I I I was optimistic, so I I'm I'm glad to hear that Dave Limp is uh is sharing some optimism there as well. Uh, I would love for you to uh sort of walk me through some of the trade-offs and economic uh considerations about getting to the moon because uh we just saw with the Aremis launch that uh single rocket seem to be able to just fly right up there, come back. And then when I see the Starship plan, >> I'm like, it's a as big or bigger rocket. It should just be able to go straight there. But then when I see the actual plans, it's like seven different refueling stages and it seems much more complicated and it and it seems like you have the ability to potentially get to the moon with certain plans. And so it feels like there's an ensemble approach, there's different tradeoffs. Like what is the logic as we try and get to the moon more regularly? How will this actually play out? >> Yeah, I think you know there's there's two ways to do it. you you you use a large um partially reusable where you throw you basically throw away those upper stages. >> Okay. >> And and and take a lander to the moon. That's kind of the Blue Origin uh approach. Or there's the fully reusable with with multiple refueling to get there and back, which is the SpaceX approach. >> But what we do with Helios is sort of the former. We're adding this this expendable third stage >> and now we can we can 10x the amount of payload on a Falcon 9 to the moon. So imagine that lever like you basically um for the same cost of the launch vehicle puts a little bit more for the Helios. You're getting 10 times the amount of cargo and and we've looked at missions to Mars Mars where we get uh five times the payload to Mars just by adding a Helios. So it's a huge leverage. It's it's going to be a really compelling product when it starts flying. It's it's already selling really well. I think once we flying it's we won't be able to make them fast enough. >> So you you you have the money raised. Uh what what what are you actually working on in terms of uh creating reliable manufacturing your supply chain uh because I imagine that it's not enough to build one prototype a few prototypes something handbuilt. That might be something you're experimenting with in the early stages but the name of the game is industrial capacity here. Uh what do the next few years look like in terms of scale? >> Yeah, ramping up production. We're hiring more people and we're and we're hiring a lot of people in the production area, you know, manufacturing engineers, technicians, um all all kinds of of people now where earlier, you know, earlier in the company's history, we were mostly hiring, you know, a lot of development engineers. So now we're really getting into production on our products. Um and we we just moved into or starting to move into a much larger facility here. We're filling that out with uh you know production capability and we're always um the same thing that we did at SpaceX. We're constantly um uh bringing more things inhouse like getting becoming even more vertically integrated. >> Okay, >> vert vertical integration takes a lot of capital which is why we've raised a lot. >> Um but it it once you vertically integrated you have a huge advantage. We see that we see this with with SpaceX able to able to execute very quickly, very efficiently uh at low cost. Uh basically you can control cost, schedule and quality if you're vertically integrated. >> And and take me through the shape of that vertical integration. Are you buying like tube bending machines, CNC machines, 3D printers? Like what is the shape of the vertical integration? Are you building like specific machinery that will just make one product over and over and over again? I mean that that's the tooling part of it, but certainly you know milling machines, lathes, uh 3D printers, um and uh building out test capability. Um >> so like raw materials in and you finished product eventually. >> Yeah. You know, you bring in raw material and spacecraft come out the other end of the factory. >> I love it. >> Uh what do you think the impact of the SpaceX IPO will be on, you know, the space economy broadly? uh you know talking about you know maybe people that have been there for a decade maybe ready to do something new. >> How do you think it'll uh uh impact the industry? Well, certainly, you know, the space economy has been accelerating, you know, since the time that, you know, I've started this company a lot. And I think that's just the really the the general effect of of SpaceX and other startups have on the industry. >> And now with the announcement, it's just supercharged the space industry. >> Um, it's which is great. And I love what Elon's talked about, you know, uh, building, you know, basically he's talking about building mega structures now in space. you know, millions of of AI servers in space. And he's already talking about using the resources of the moon in order to build when, you know, when they max out what they can launch. And this is the theme of my company is like this is something I've talked about a lot is you need to use the resources of the moon to build these mega structures in space because it's going to be destructive to the earth to to launch it from earth or grab it from earth or or in the in the the case of compute power to the amount of compute power we're going to need in the next 30 years as it's growing at 15% uh annually is is just crushing. So moving that to space is is the obvious thing in the long term. I'm glad to see it's happening sooner. >> Seems like you're excited about both the moon and Mars. Uh Elon uh was like a Mars maxi for a long time. Now he's interested in the moon. It's been exciting. I' I'm obviously excited about both, but uh what is different about these two missions? Obviously, the moon's closer, but uh like what what's uniquely unlocked by the moon? Why is the moon important? Why do you see Mars as as important as well? Obviously, you should never stop. I hope you wind up going to Alpha Centauri soon. But but but let's just uh narrow in on Moon and Mars. What are the unique opportunities? What are the risks? What are the trade-offs? >> Yeah, I've always been uh more of a moon person myself. I I think the moon is more important in near term. >> Uh it's it's easier to have a permanent base there. >> And I think there everything we need to build in space is on the moon. The metals, you know, water, um you know, oxygen. So everything we need to to be self-sufficient uh of of building mega structures in space is is there. And I would also add near near-Earth objects. Some of them are easier to get to uh than the moon. Mars is super important. Uh >> wait, what's a near-earth object that's closer to the there's secret planets or asteroids out there you know about? And I don't near asteroid. >> Okay. >> Near Earth asteroid. Yeah. >> The thing about the moon is it still has a gravity well. You know, we we talk in kilometers per second. >> Yeah. >> Earth has a gravity well of like 9 km per second and the moon has a gravity well of like two 2.4. >> Okay. >> But it still have you still that's a lot of propulsion to to to break down onto the moon at 2.4 and then come back. You're talking 5 km per second total. >> That's a lot of delta V. >> And you got to bring that with you. >> Yeah. You got to bring the propellant to do that. That's why the moon is is still pretty tough. Whereas a small asteroid is, you know, is it's just meters per second maybe or centimeters per second >> because the gravity is so low. So you don't have to um to to use all that uh propellant in order to get there and back. So it's >> and and those meteors I'm not trying to quiz you on something that you might not have dug into, but I'm fascinated. Are these like meteors that are just passing by and the whole point is that they pass by regularly enough that we could go up and back or are there actual meteors that are like orbiting the earth right now that I don't know about? >> There are I mean there are I think there's one right now right that's these things get temporarily captured and orbit and then they eventually run the table and they get thrown out like the moon will throw them out or something. >> Yeah. But there's you know >> there's lot most of them are you know further than the moon but >> but once you to escape Earth's gravity. >> It just takes time to get there. But the but you don't have a gravity well once you once you get there to get the material to come back. >> But the moon the moon is easier in just that you have surface gravity and you know and a nice surface you can land on and build on. So I think the moon moon is super important also. >> Yeah. Uh sorry Drew you have something or uh not right now. >> I I I I can keep going. Um I I'm interested in I'm interested in the in uh both the footprint of the company. You mentioned you're expanding. I know uh the original headquarters was in Elsagundo, correct? >> Yeah, I I still have that little building over in Elsagundo. Started a little 7,000 foot building, >> but I imagine you've outgrown. So, what what is the footprint of the company? What uh what's the workforce like today? Where do you see that going? What are you hiring for? This feels like a great company to join if you're, you know, uncertain about how AI will change the world. Well, we're going to be shooting rockets for 30 years, as you said. We have a lot of work to do. So, this feels like a fantastic opportunity for folks. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, like I mentioned, we started in the 7,000 foot garage, people call it over over there. We we maxed that out and then we moved into to the um our facility that had an interim that's about 60,000 ft >> and we just acquired another 240,000 square ft uh on the same block, basically at the other end of the block >> that we're we're just starting to to build out. We've got 500 uh employees right now. We just we just passed 500 in a few weeks ago >> and we've got uh 200 open job wrecks. So, we're hiring. >> Whoa. >> That is that is fantastic. Take me through the shape of the uh There we go. >> Hiring 200 people. That's serious. Uh take me through the shape of the of the of those job racks. Are are you hiring software engineers? Are you using AI everywhere? Are you hiring everything? >> Like I mentioned earlier, we're hiring a lot in the production area. Okay. >> Um we're, you know, we're we're hiring, uh software, uh people, uh just >> I mean, we're a spacecraft company. Um >> we we do, you know, we have to do comms, we have to, you know, we have radios, we have antennas, we have reaction wheels, all kinds of stuff. Lots of avionics, lots of propulsion, lots of structures, lots of software to control it. There's, you know, no no such thing as being a tech company without software to to operate your hardware. So, >> yeah, >> all of the above. Guidance, navigation, and control. Um, orbital mechanics are I'm a rocket scientist. I don't understand most orbital mechanics. That's that's really tough stuff. Super smart guys that figure out how to get how to how to na navigate in space. >> Yeah. >> All of the above. >> That's great. >> Awesome. Uh, we have a gong. We'd love to hit it in. >> Tell us about the fund raise. You raised $500 million from 137 Ventures. >> There we go. We love Christians over 137. Uh well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Have a fantastic rest of your week. >> Yeah, great stuff. We'll >> catch up with you progress. >> Thank you guys. >> Goodbye. >> Thank you so much. Uh uh OpenAI announced that they're breaking ground on Stargate Michigan, a 1 gawatt data center utilizing closed loop cooling and they're getting out ahead of the water, the water FUD. They say it uses water at the rate of a typical office building. Creates thousands of unions. >> Not an office building that I'm in. >> No, I know you're drinking a lot of water. You're not drinking tap water. You're bringing in the glass bottled water potentially. >> Theora water. >> Aurora's, you know, getting uh >> thousands of gallons a day. >> AI pivot for Aurora >> filtering the water that goes into the data center. Make sure it's clean for the GPU. >> Only >> I'm sure that there's a water filtering system. I'm sure that there is a water filtering system in these uh in these data centers. >> Uh in other OpenAI news, uh >> there's now sites in codecs. You can turn work ideas, plans into interactive websites or apps uh your team can explore, use and share. This is very cool. This is what you asked for. Yes. >> The first benchmark, my hello world test. Like, can I go on my phone into uh into any of these AI apps and have it generate me a link to a website that I can share with a friend because I can generate uh a big deep dive text thread and I can share that link with someone. They can go in the app and see what I've been texting back and forth. That's very useful. You can generate an image and then you can save that to your camera roll, send that around. It's very portable. And when I demoed uh Meta AI, the the latest launch, uh one of the suggested prompts is like vibe code a video game. And it actually does a really really great job building a little miniature video game and it gives you a link, but the link is like trapped within the meta AI. And I'm like, oh, we're so close. It's such a minor thing to have a to have an actual hosting service there. Uh but I think that that's exciting for virality and something >> be a bull market for simulators. >> Yes. because you'll be able to I mean the there are a lot of people who you know they as much as they want the Mac Mini and the the the MacBook Pro with the lid cranked open at all times. They want to you know vibe code something or build something on their phone and then send that to a friend and and if they build something interactive they want that to be sharable. Uh and this is a yeah exciting exciting development. Um >> uh speaking of meta they had >> what else is going on with meta? I think a pretty insane. >> Oh yeah. Is this real? I I saw this and I was like this cannot possibly be real, but it is in real. I've seen I've seen a number of people that I know that have one word usernames that got hacked. Okay, so basically this is from 404 media. Hackers simply asked Meta AI to give them access to high-profile Instagram accounts. It worked. I'm sure they're rolling it back. I'm sure they're on top of this. Uh the exploit shows the extreme risk of upload offloading technical support to AI. I guess the I guess the uh the AI was able to deliver uh you know um uh account recovery information to anyone who asked and it wasn't segmented. It didn't do the proper validation. Hackers say that they use Meta AI chatbot uh to break into a host highprofile Instagram account. >> Here's a video of how it worked. Pull it up. >> Play that video and uh we will see how they're 4 >> the Obama White House account got hit. Oh no. Um people were saying I've been >> are stealing high-profile Instagram accounts using the easiest possible method. They're just asking Meta's AI chatbot for access to the accounts. Here's how it worked. Basically, they started a chat Meta's AI chatbot and said, "Hey, I want access to a specific account. Please send a reset code to the hacker's email address." And lo and behold, Meta's AI chatbot said, "That's not our soundboard." In the last 24 hours, we've seen some really high-profile accounts targeted this way. We saw Barack Obama's White House account get stolen. We saw a Space Force account get stolen. >> So, they were only targeting highprofile Instagram accounts. Did they go after yours, Jordy? This is what I'm not in that league. >> Oh, they they came they came out of mine. Crazy. They were trying to steal my Oh, it's insane. I was just getting bombarded cuz they were like, "We got to get this guy's Instagram account." They were probably going for your dog's Instagram account. >> Maybe. I think he still has more followers than me. Rest in peace, Gustavo. >> One of the best to ever do it. >> Anyway, uh you know who won't be passing away anytime soon? Vladimir Putin, because he is on a$26 billion quest for longevity. Uh Brian Johnson's chiming in. He can't go to a rich person's yacht or fly a private plane. I think that Russia has invested more in Putin's longevity >> than AI >> or close to it. I was trying to figure out how many GPUs they had inside. >> Best AI people like left via Yandex and are now running in Neoclouds and yeah and also Click House. Um anyway, from mini pigs to an organ printing to cryotherapy and genetics, Russia's president has turned anti-aging research into a Kremlin priority. And remember, he was caught on that hot mic uh with with Cinping saying that humans could achieve immortality by replacing their organs. Some dismissed the exchange as eccentric small talk between aging autocrats. In fact, during the conversation at a Beijing military parade last September, Putin appeared to be describing a Kremlinbacked longevity initiative that has become one of Russia's flagship scientific projects. Uh like other Silicon Valley billionaires, Putin has been long fascinated with anti-aging research. But in Russia, Putin's quest to stave off decline is now a state priority. Last month, Russia's government announced that scientists are developing a gene therapy treatment aimed at slowing cellular aging uh as part of the 26 billion longevity initiative. The drug represents one of the most promising avenues in the fight against aging. Another auspicious avenue creating human organs in a lab for transplantation. Sounds uh normal, very normal thing to do. One of the lifespan expending. >> Wasn't Tyler trying to He's been doing that. He's been >> We always say, "Hey, knock it off. Knock it off. Breeding the human organs." >> Uh, all these efforts are part of a national longevity initiative he unveiled in 2024, which promises to save 175,000 lives by the end of the decade. That's great. Russian state scientists appointed by Putin have focused on two key areas. Bioprinting or 3D printing living tissue and xenotransplantation or growing human organs inside mini pigs. What if the next what if the next, you know, longevity hack comes from the mosquito and we kill them all and it's like, oh, all you need to do is get a blood transfusion from a mosquito next long. >> Yeah. The next GLP-1 potentially. You got to be careful about these knock-on effects. Who knows? >> Well, I think the conspiracy theorists would would say that some humans already discovered the mosquitoes one simple trick. >> Yeah. What's that? >> Drinking blood. >> Oh, yeah. Weird. Um, >> Russian scientists are working with government agencies to claim that they claim that they have bioprinted human cartilage tissue. That seems doable maybe. And a mouse thyroid gland with the aim of achieving human organ replacement by 2030. Uh they're trying to grow organs inside pigs. In the Russian Federation, work is underway on a whole range of scientific programs in this field. These projects are supported by the state and many scientific and research institutions are taking part of them. Uh, it's difficult to discuss immortality, but the ability to repair man will undoubtedly increase, they told the Russian media. Unlike similar research funded by American tech elites, uh, the work promoted by Putin Circle has produced little peer-reviewed research in major international journals. He's keeping it to himself. He's going to live forever and not tell us how he did it. We'll see. Anyway, he's doing a cold plunge, too. So he's doing some of the some of the old stuff, some of the new stuff. Uh the average male life expectancy in Russia is about 68 years. Uh roughly compared to 76 in the United States. So lots of room to catch up. Uh 80 over Western Europe, the the Europeans are living to 80 these days, but in Russia just 60 68 years. So uh lots of room to improve health over in Russia. We'll see. We'll see what happens. Maybe they've discovered the next GLP1. It feels like it is they are behind the ball on AI and it feels like they uh would be potentially enhanced by having AI tools to help them alongside this. I have been I I feel like uh AI 2027 China wakes up this year. When is Russia waking up? >> I had Codex do some quick research. No no evidence of any uh anything like you know Blackwell level chip which makes sense. I don't think and Nvidia has plenty of demand. It wouldn't be selling them over there. They do have uh likely small numbers to low hundreds of H200s. >> Uh potentially hundreds to low thousands of H100s. >> Mhm. And then they have uh some A100s, but again uh and then and then certainly could have um some uh within the military that they're not uh talking about, but um but yeah, not >> uh they're trying to get up to 10 supercomputers by 2030 is their >> stated ambition, each with 10,000. >> That just sounds like not a lot. I think you're going to >> they're calling they're calling they're calling everyone else's bluff. >> You absolutely must not dunk on any Russian oligarchs if they talk about their underfunded AI projects. >> I will not I will not >> you must abstain because uh you can have a fun you can have some fun witty banter with the president of France >> the president of France uh but I do not want you uh to draw the the eye of the Kremlin at any point in time. I I >> I respect their super respect their supercomputers. >> I respect them. They're doing great. Seems like it's on track. Good job, everyone over there. You're doing great. >> Really, really good. >> AGI definitely on the same timeline as every other country. Uh we have to pull up this video. We have our next guest in the waiting room. But first, we have to play this video from Jensen Wong because the gamers are rising up and Nvidia is delivering a AI chip for laptops, four PCs, supercomputers at home, AI agents at home. It's in section K. He was on stage and he had a very funny quote. I want you to listen to this, Jordy. >> The new 007 game. I'm looking forward to playing it. >> I look a little bit like him. >> Look at this. Isn't that gentleman? >> I look a little bit like him. >> They're going to blow out. They're going to blow out. It's going to be a blowout. >> That's the funniest bit. He's playing like he's like this this laptop has fours on it. The racing game. This this laptop has double the new 007 game out. It looked like him. It's like I guess he's wearing a leather jacket or something, but that's just so funny to be like I'm I'm >> he's having a great quarter. >> It's amazing. It's such a great bit and then he and then he shows some other racks. But uh there's a lot of good there's a lot of good stuff from Nvidia. Uh why Nvidia inside can work in the PC market, the world's only $5 trillion company can sell the concept that AI computing won't be won't be confined to data centers. So, uh, he's already getting ahead of the of the future of on premise AI compute, local AI inference happening in your house. You get a DGX, you get a big powered PC, and it runs your lights, it runs your smartome, it runs whatever you want locally and actually can inference a near frontier model uh, in the future. So, uh, exciting to see. I like it. I like the idea of having powerful AI that's not in the cloud, that's local. I think that that's fun. And I've always been a fan of the tiny box and this is in that vein. So, >> yeah. And I actually I bought the property right next to your home. >> Yeah. >> And I'm putting a a little data center in. >> Perfect. As long as I can uh throw an Ethernet cable over there. Well, we have Edward Kim from Gusto. He's the co-founder and head of technology. Welcome to the show, Edward. How are you doing? >> I'm great. Thanks for having me. >> Thanks for hopping on. >> Great to have you on. Great to meet you. >> I I think >> Yeah, nice to meet you. I think I'm the third and final co-founder. >> Final co That's what I was going to say. So, uh >> there must be one more you guys have hidden. Yeah. One up your just us three. >> No, just three. Okay. Well, uh, anyway, take us through the launch today. Tell us what's happening in Gusto world. >> Yeah. So, today I'm really excited. I think it's the most important moment for us as a company since the launch of the company almost 14 15 years ago. Um, and we're launching today Gusto Co-founder. Um, Gusto Co-founder is >> really the first uh agent that can automate most of what a small business does in their back office. Mhm. >> You guys were just talking about um personal computers and I have a Mac Mini where I set up Open Claw. It took me eight hours to set up. >> Yeah. >> Pain in the ass. Yep. >> Um and as soon as I got through the entire setup, I didn't really know what to do with it, right? I still kind of like use it as a glorified >> uh search search engine. >> People in the back. >> Sorry. Some someone on your someone on your team was >> in the office. We're in we're in the office here in Doc Patch. >> Um people still using it still as a glorified search engine. Yeah. Um and that's kind of the problem that we set out to solve with Gusto co-founder. >> Yeah. >> Uh instead of starting from the technology uh and and then giving people a blank canvas on something to do with it, uh what Guso co-founder does is we start with all of the problems that we're already helping our customers with payroll, benefits, HR, scheduling, time, and then we bring on a lot of the um power of AI AI into it. Uh so at the center of Gusto co-founder is a concept called automations and essentially you tell us what your business processes are uh starting with payroll benefits all these things that we're already doing for you and Gusa co-founder will basically run your business process for you uh you communicate with it through SMS and Slack. So you don't really even interface with it through a uh through a website. Um and then of course we'll connect to all of your systems that you're using outside of Gusto as well. Uh so notion, Quickbooks, uh Google Workspace, you have a lot of information and data that sits outside of Gusto as well. What Gusto Gusto co-founder does is it brings it all together into one place where it can automate your your your business processes. >> Why why SMS and Slack? Why not uh like a chat interface and a gusto app directly? Like what what what does that allow you? I think it just I mean >> I'll tell you it just mimics exact I mean uh >> I I remember even with how Gusto how easy to use Gusto was in 2018 when I had my first business. I was still relieved when we hired somebody whose job was just to kind of like handle everything on the payroll side. And if I needed something done, I would just text them or I would slack them and say, "Hey, hey, can you do this thing or hey, we're we're onboarding this person or this contractor uh you know uh we needed to like make sure they get paid by this day or whatever it was." Uh and so I I just think like actually actually making it feel like a teammate is is uh getting you much closer to the experience of like people are not waking up every morning. Entrepreneurs are not waking up saying like I want to spend a bunch of time in my payroll platform today, right? Like you want it to be so seamless that it's just it's just happening. >> Yeah, that that's exactly right. We want it to feel like your teammate. Um it should be someone that you know you feel comfortable texting um having run processes for you. So you could have it actually text you when it's run your payroll. Uh it'll it'll tell you the like total amount and all you have to do is say I approve it. It'll actually run your payroll. So you never even have to like log into Gusto to run your payroll ever again. >> Um if you want to do more one-off things like hey pay this contractor 500 bucks, you could just text it as well. Um one of the things I really loved about OpenClaw is just it just blew my mind. It was such a simple concept that seems so obvious, the ability to text with it through Telegram. Um, and that's kind of I wanted to bring that magical experience into Gus a co-founder. It it just really changes the game and it's hard to understate how important that is. >> Yeah. So is the product development for this sort of like indigenous in the sense that your your experience are like informing the product decisions or is it you're noticing customers like you're noticing an uptake or you I don't even know if you can detect if your customers are interfacing with Gusto's core endpoints or UI uh with OpenClaw like are you able to see some sort of data to show that there's demand for this or is it just like you know you've experienced it and you're you're launching this. >> Yeah. I mean, if you just um observe some of our customers, like I'll give one example. There was a um massage spa in New York and what they do every week to run payroll is they typically have um work tracked in some other system. >> In this case, it was MindBody, right? A lot of like spa, yoga studios, Pilates, they track work of their workers in in MindBody. Then every week what they'll do is they'll export data from there. They'll put it into Google spreadsheets. Um they'll run some crazy calculation in there. They'll say, you know, if you worked this many um if you did this many massages and you'll get paid this much. If you upsold CBD oil or hot stone massage, you get 15 bucks for each one of those. That goes in as a bonus and and commission. And then here's how we do tips. We'll split it across all of our therapists. They do all that calculation and then and only then they go into Gusto put in all that information to run payroll. >> That part we see obviously, right? And so if you only look at that part, we're like great, we did a great job. It takes like seconds to run payroll. But if you look at the entire process that they're running, there's this whole what I call the work before the work that happens. And you really only like understand that when you observe a customer like end to end, not just using your systems, but all the systems that they're using to run their business. And that's why kind of having these connectors and Gusto co-founder was so important to us. We recognize that these businesses are not doing everything within Gusto, at least not yet. And um they have multiple systems that they're connecting and and these entrepreneurs are really creative in stringing them together, but that's still a lot of work at the end of the day. and they can just really kind of have those business processes just tell Gustoa co-founder once that like hey go export it from this system um do these calculations on it then put it into Gusto run payroll and then text me the the final amount so that I can approve it before you actually run payroll >> that's last question for me I'm I'm very interested in how uh like I don't know like like a company of gusto scale thinks about launching new products within Gusto like because you sort There are a lot of people that are just like, "Oh, Gusto works perfectly. I'm not going to think about it." And you have to like you have to market this new feature, this new product to your existing customers. Obviously, it's a draw for new customers because new capability, better product, but also just you have to tell people obviously you can email them, but I'm interested to know like because every payroll admin probably has a phone number already like like authenticated for two factor like is there some sort of like internal go to market strategy that's more mature than just throw it in the newsletter, tell everyone that this thing exists? like how are you thinking about actually onboarding, measuring churn, making sure there's satisfaction of for sort of like a new product within the Gusto ecosystem? >> Yeah, I mean I think it's really just talking to your customers all the time. I think um really understanding what their needs are. There's always going to be more problems that we can solve for them. Yeah. Um, and then when we solve those problems, um, you know, we're pretty good at tracking, um, either through, um, you know, customers we've talked to or through our data, like how do we reach out to those folks that would specifically benefit from what we just built. >> Um, that way we're not, you know, kind of spamming every single one of our 500 plus thousand uh, employers on Gusto for every little thing that we launch. We want to kind of just kind of communicate to them um, only the most relevant things. And so with Custoer, we're we've reached out to 500 customers to give early access to this starting today. Um and they're naturally a little bit more on the tech forward ones or the ones that we've talked to that, you know, are already using um AI to automate parts of their business, but can do a lot more. >> Yeah. Cost. How much does it cost you? How much does it cost the customer? Is inference a problem? Like are you able to use a series of models? like how are you thinking about uh is it is it like >> yeah I think you got to worry about people being like hey I'm trying to ship this new feature you think >> hey co-founder like can you actually just do product development for me too and it's like no problem boss >> I mean I think the philosophy we took with Gusto co-founder is we wanted to unconstrain it as much as possible uh because I I really want to just learn to see how people use it right if you have it um say hey text me the weather >> every morning especially if it's going to rain today because my business is a tour business. >> Yeah, that might actually relevant even though it sounds like a wild like just random openclaw task like that actually does make sense in that business context. >> Yeah. And then and then look at my customer list and send them an email uh saying to bring an umbrella for today's tour >> to build this automation. >> You can do that on gusto co-founder and we had some conversations do we really want to let people do this? And I think our bias has always been >> why not right? That's the problem of why people aren't getting the most out of AI is because I think a lot of folks are putting unnecessary constraints um on those systems. And obviously like at some point there's certain things that we won't want Gusto co-founder to do. We're not going to have it like you know >> serve as your cloud code or anything like that. >> Um but I think for now we're we're more in a learning mode. We want to kind of see how people use it. We want to encourage >> people to get as creative as possible with it. >> Okay. Jordan, you think what I'm thinking? Automatic swear jar. Anytime you swear docks your gusto payroll automatically. >> I like it >> agentically. This is >> You can do that. Probably probably >> I like that you guys didn't uh just pick some quirky like humanlike name. >> Oh yeah. >> Co-founder. >> It is just like an just like a very >> Yeah. I mean that's kind of how we think about it. It should be literally the person that you are on a texting basis you feel comfortable reaching out to. >> Yeah. um day or night to take care of something to help you with running your business. >> That's great. >> Would you one day allow it to make uh calls on behalf of customers? Like let's say there's some, you know, you you have a >> um >> I9 verification. Uh yeah, I was thinking more like you know let's say you have an employee in another state and like you know the the the tax board there or some type of employment agency like >> call them and explain this to them. >> You know I feel like every every startup uh founder is used to getting like >> some type of letter in the mail from some random state that you pay to come and you have to call and you have to call. I feel like there's probably some stuff there down the line. >> Yeah. I mean I I don't see why not. We don't do that today, but you can just certainly tell it to um email >> on your behalf, right? And so if we're willing to do email >> um then why not call us? >> That'd be amazing. Well, uh thank you so much for coming on and breaking it down for us. Have a great rest of your day. Congratulations on the launch. >> Congrats to the team. >> We'll talk to you soon. >> Cheers. >> Okay, sectional. We got to pull up the Ferrari Luche. I think this is the third mention of the Ferrari Luche of the show. this show, >> but uh people have been talking about different specs and uh this Instagram account showed the uh Ferrari Luche 1.9 JTD base spec and I think it looks fantastic. What do you think? Scroll through some of these. So, this is uh this is when you get it with a 1.9 L turbo diesel. It's like a base model Civic uh specked like this. It looks fantastic. Just just minimal minimal. Scroll through all of them. Here we go. Look at H. Yeah. The the the central console delete and then the stake shift there. Just >> I actually love the way this looks. >> You don't? >> I do. >> This looks like a 1995 Honda Civic. >> I think this looks >> the Okay. The rear end looks a little bit rough, but >> just ultra ultra discounted. Uh >> let's compare it to the Spectre EV from Rolls-Royce. >> Yeah. Uh coming out starting price up >> around half a mil. >> Okay. >> 307 milei range >> 20% cheaper than a luch. >> Uh 0 to 64.1 seconds. >> Good. Very slow. Very big. Very heavy. But that's >> 6,600 lb. It's the same as a Cybert truck. >> Same as a Cybert truck. That is wild. >> Uh but it looks incredible. >> Okay. Well, would you get one of these? one Rolls-Royce Spectre series 2 or 10 Model S Plaids used. Model S Plaid goes 0 to 60 in two seconds. You can get 10 of them. So, you can just be launching them off some cliff, dive out, get in the next one because you got 10 of these things. 0 to 60 in two seconds. >> It's a tough call. It's a tough call when you put it like that. >> At 50k, the uh the the used Tesla Model Plat is hard to beat. Uh what do you think? I mean, the alternative with the lucha, you could get 15 Tesla Model S Plaids >> or one Lucha. >> You and the crew just 0 to 60 in two seconds. The drag racing would be very, very good. You have your whole whole bachelor party doing drag races. Uh, what do you think of the GMC Hummer X SUV pickup truck concept? >> I thought this would be good for you. >> I like this. And you know where they launched it? The Pasadena Design Studio. Can you believe that? They brought it to my hometown. It's a sign, John. >> It's a sign. I think it looks good. The the the the truck also looks good. Um I It's interesting because it looks It still looks huge, but uh in a world of uh 20 uh 1,250 horsepower Corvettes, ultra luxury Cadillacs, the GMC Hummer SUV, and pickup trucks are no longer the mo most outrageous new cars in the General Motors family. That does not mean they've been forgotten, though. GM is celebrating the opening of a new design studio in Pasadena, California. Let's go. By reimagining its enormous electric SUV with a pair of outdoorsy concepts, one size smaller than we've seen recently. Uh I think I I think it looks cool. Looks very like uh ready to crawl over some rocks. I think it's a fun fun time. Anyway, uh let me tell you about >> let's have Whistland Diesel put it to the test cuz he tried to test a Cybert truck and I think it it stopped. It basically bricked before he could really make a video. >> 100%. We got to we got to see the the what what does he call it? Durability test. Whistland diesel dur durability test. Uh let's see it. Uh let me tell you about console. Console builds AI agents that automate 70% of their IT, HR, and finance support, giving employees instant resolution for access requests and password resets. And our next guest is in the waiting room Murphy from Partn. Welcome back. How you doing? >> Hey guys, it's great to see you. How's it going? >> Good to see you too. Thanks so much for you were what what were you dressed as last time? Was it Halloween? >> The wicked witch of the west. >> That was a wild appearance. That was really really fun. >> Uh you said you said you weren't going to you said you weren't going to dress up this time. >> Yeah. >> But I still am kind of disappointed that you didn't dress up. >> I'm disappointed myself. >> Yeah. Uh well, I'm not disappointed in particles world. Tell us. >> Yeah. And uh you guys going to finally make some money? What's going on? >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, I know. We literally promised to the world an ironbound agreement that Particle would never make money with a very literal tweet that was clearly meant entirely seriously and could not possibly be a joke. Um, and here we are violating our promises to the community. It's kind of a sad day. >> Wow. >> No, I think it's a great day. >> I think it's a great day. >> We love monetization here. >> We love monetization. >> You love money. Uh, I wanted I wanted I wanted hyperargeted ads based on >> Partle, right in the app. >> Like, you know, I wanted I want I want it to feel like Particle is listening to me. >> Yeah. I don't think that's what you're I don't think that's what you're going to do. >> It should let you stand up a B2B MLM on demand. So, this person was at this party with this potential customer. Enlist that person to sell them ramp. Something like that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Buy some Tupperware. >> Yeah. Yeah. Tupperware party for enterprise SAS. This >> that is what that that would have been a good play. It's like, hey, we're we're we said we weren't going to make money. Turns out we are >> part of full Tupperware parties. Host a host a party. Host a party in your area. >> Be good. But actually take us through the realization plans because we've rifted enough and I want to hear the real story. >> Uh so yeah, I mean today Particle launches ticketing. It's available on app on web. You can now buy and sell tickets directly on protocol. >> Fantastic. >> So it's not just us making money, it's host making money, too. And that's the most important thing. >> Very very cool. Who >> I want to know. Yeah. Is it like walk crawl run? Like do you imagine that you're going to bring in like a new like like you know like a you know like a band that's performing at a concert and that's going to be a new user that that has been on the fence and not jumped in or do you think that there will be a sort of more gradual uh evolution from people that are throwing events on part it's an easy add-on so the next one in their series of events they will just uh have paid ticketing for because they already have a lot of traction. and they're a power user. >> Yeah. Little bit of column A, a little bit of column B. So, the impetus for building it was something that had been building for quite a while, which is that people were already trying to host paid events on Purple. Yeah. >> Uh you know, supper clubs, run clubs, uh you know, community events, concerts, album release parties, fundraisers. And because we didn't have ticketing, it was not a great user experience. like hosts were linking out to other platforms. Guests weren't sure like does my RSVP count or does my ticket count? Hosts were cross referencing. So >> that wasn't really upholding our standard of what we want particle to be and what Particle is known for, which is having a super seamless experience no matter what kind of event you're hosting. >> And so first and foremost, we saw this as a feature gap. >> And it was always a question of well, when do we close this feature gap? And I think the tipping point for us was starting last year uh we launched our explore feed which is a tab on the app that you can go to and you can browse events that are happening around you. They're highly curated. You can see what your part mutuals are going to and increasingly people are using that as a place to discover things to do. And so with the launch of Explore, we started to see a proliferation of these events that really needed ticketing because they're marketed to the public because they're often higher production value. Like it it takes real money to put on a lot of great events and that funding for hosts has to come from somewhere and it typically comes from selling tickets. And so all of that really culminated where we were like, first and foremost, we want to create a much better experience for the hosts on Particle today and the guests on Partle today to do what they're already doing, but in a seamless way. And then two, we absolutely know that there are types of events that you can't have on Partle because we don't have ticketing. And so we're hoping with this that we can grow and actually get even more of those events onto Particle that weren't on the platform previously. Yeah, I can imagine like a lot of even emerging artists that aren't on like some insane, you know, tour master, etc. Like the the experience of like an artist being able to like send a easy text blast and feel like they're communicating and and then have like social features built in. I feel like that'll be a much uh much cooler >> experience. What trends are you seeing on Partifle? Like I I would I feel like you guys should should maybe you do and I and I haven't seen them but like I want to know like have have run clubs peaked? Have people stopped running from whatever they're running from? Uh like what what what what's kind of maybe >> what's the health of the lookalike meetup ecosystem? Are have we reached peak lookalike meetup or are we continuing to boom? Well, it was funny you you mentioned that because on our very serious Twitter that should be taken literally at all times, we did tweet like I think a year ago that lookalike contests are dead and that future lookalike contests will be banned on the platform. And actually a a news publication picked it up and said Particle has canceled lookalike events, but they're still happening. And and and and you know, honestly, in 2026, many of them are still great. Like there was a big heated rivalry lookalike contest that was still happening. There was a JFK Junior lookalike contest. And so I I think I' I've come around and I can never say no to a good lookalike contest. There's also these just like mass meetups in Central Park and, you know, Dolores Park to do whatever. And so I I think that's the trend that we're seeing is the rise of these viral events of someone, you know, taking a funny meme and actually bringing it to life in the real world. And it's so much better when that happens. Like people yearn to touch grass and they yearn for these types of events that feel like easy, lowkey, and something that where they can participate in a collective cultural moment uh and say that they were there. Like I I don't I think anyone >> it has a crazy feedback loop too because the Meetup itself produces so much viral content that then feeds the meme because it's like well that person doesn't look exactly like so and so you know sometimes sometimes they do sometimes they don't. >> Yeah public events are social. Another reason ticketing is on Parallel now. >> So uh have you discovered any like lessons from like particularly seamless payment processing? I feel like so much of the beauty of Partle is like how like the text man message integration, the seamlessness and I feel like there's demand for Apple Pay or or Venmo. There's like a whole bunch of different ways you could solve that. Maybe you just do the hard work to get everyone to put their credit card information in and then it's all saved nicely. But like what was the what were the trade-offs? What was like the best practice that you wound up landing on? Yeah. So, first and foremost, it was like this should feel ridiculously easy because RSVPing on purple is really easy. It shouldn't feel quite as easy as RSVPing because like you do have to pay money. Um, but if if you go through the flow, it still feels like buttery smooth like you tap by tickets, you add, you know, you add the number of tickets you want. Um, if you have a promo code, you use that. Like we we have an event for tech week tomorrow where tickets are $10,000. But if you have the secret promo code, >> how much is it then? >> We have the secret promo code >> 20,000. >> Oh, >> the secret promo code. >> It's $9,999. Uh, very fun. >> What What like what's your motivation at this point? Like what's your what's your ambition? I feel like, you know, I I imagine you guys have had a bunch of acquisition interests this entire time to date while you're not making any money and uh you you know, somebody makes an offer and you're looking at it and you're like, "Wow, this is, you know, a big number." It's I feel like the hardest time to turn down an acquisition would is when you're not making money. once you're making money and you're growing and things like that, like it can there's more of like a line of sight to, hey, this is like a really big real business. But, uh, how how did you how did you process like building a company for this long that's so in the public eye, that's so popular, uh, and not making money and and stay focused on the long term. >> Yeah, it's a great question. It It's a bad day for everyone who wanted to acquire us when we weren't making money. Yeah, exactly. >> For sure. >> Brutal. Brutal. They hate they all the acquirers probably love that. Uh oh, yeah. Part of it's cute. Like they're not really monetizing yet, so they'll they'll take our offer eventually. Nightmare. Nightmare for them. >> Yeah. Bet. They're they're down bad today. Uh but but I think this is like uh this is exactly the next step we wanted to take for our long-term ambitions. Like we intend for Particle to be a massive company and we've already proven in so many ways that we're there from like a growth perspective and we're continuing to grow. Uh but this just felt like such a natural addition to our ecosystem where it's a win-win. We're closing a feature gap. We're making an experience buttery smooth, which is what we always want to do for everything we're building. We're solving a problem for hosts. We're solving a problem for guests. And yes, this feature happens to be book one where we can make money. It it's not the only feature that we'll ever build to make money. There's a lot more to come, but it is the right next step in our journey. And I think what's cool is that it's coming at a time where there's this real cultural moment around gathering in the real world for these fundamentally social experiences. And that's where Participle plays really well. Uh, one thing that's pretty different about us is we're not a ticketing company where social is an afterthought or non-existent. We're a social product that now has a ticketing component on top of it. And so, what does that get us? Like you mentioned concerts earlier, Jordy, like Weezer, for example, threw a ton of popups uh on Partle that were just free events that they were doing for their community as part of their tour. Um, and before Partle didn't have ticketing. Uh, and so like all Weezer could do with Partle was host their their free events. But I think they're one of so many like artists, uh, cultural institutions, performers, creatives who are really harnessing to connect with their community and create social experiences with their community. And so that's the ball that our eyes are on is how do we supercharge this thing that we're seeing in the culture and what are the features we can build to help accelerate and expand that and make that accessible to more people. >> Uh do you expect there to be an entire class of artifle entrepreneurs basically small business owners where the vast majority of their revenue or almost all their revenue is flowing through. Does it feel like there's like a line of sight to that? Uh, I think that's going to be a huge and very important subset of our ticketed hosts, but I also think it's equally important for us to be serving the more casual host who needs ticketing for their event for whatever reason. Whether that's a frat, whether that's someone putting together like a party bus for their birthday, um, whether it's like just someone who wants to charge $10 to make sure that people don't flake from their event. Like there's so many ways that you can use ticketing to get what you need out of your event. And there's so many people where they have a day job, but building community is their passion project. Like we hear from so many people like that. Um, and so I really see ticketing as something that very much unlocks what they're able to do as much as it is something for the person where their lifeblood and and their business and their, you know, what what they're building for themselves and their lives financially is powered by particle. >> What's a country that uses participle a lot that people wouldn't expect? Oh. Um, Italy has a a very strong >> I would expect that. I would expect that. I have a bunch of Italian friends. They like to get together and do things. >> Yeah. Yeah. The the Italians love Portfol. Um I mean the UK is really big, but like so depends on how you feel about the UK. I've been to some phenomenal parties in London, so it doesn't surprise me, but some people are like, "What?" Uh, no. I would say like the most unexpected thing is the random most of our users are in the US. Like the random contingents of people that I didn't expect like my mom's friend texted her that Participle has gone viral in a South Florida over 55 senior living community and I love that. >> That's amazing. >> Partle retirement. Uh what what a wonderful way uh to to to retire. Uh what's the work culture like at Partle these days? Do you guys like work more on the weekend than like the nor a normal company because there's a lot of action >> stuff going on? >> Uh or or is the product robust enough that that uh you guys can, you know, take a couple days off? >> Well, it it's always the product's really robust, but it is always stressful to be on call on the weekend because like if something breaks, that is when it's going to be like a bad time for everyone. So I would say like the culture is work hard, party hard, which probably doesn't surprise anyone. Like we can't be 996 because in order for us to do our jobs right, everyone on the team physically needs time to party. Like it doesn't work without that. Um but yeah, I would I would say events that are otherwise totally fun and stressfree for other people like Halloween. Like that's my I'm in the situation room Super Bowl all Halloween, right? New Year's. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I'm not partying. Um but yeah, we >> the the party product research is a very important part of our culture. >> Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for coming. Congratulations on the progress and I'm glad to see you guys. >> Yeah, great great launch. Excited to uh attend my first ticketed Partle event whenever that is. >> Fantastic. >> $10,000 tomorrow. Pay me. >> There we go. We'll see you later. >> Great to see you rest. Goodbye. >> Let me tell you about Figma. Agents, meet the canvas. Your AI agents can now create and modify your Figma files with design system context. Go check it out. Figma.com. And our next guest is returning to the show. One of my favorite, it's probably the my number one favorite new consumer electronic device product of the last I don't know how many years. We have Bin Putnham from Ford. She's the founder and CEO. Welcome back. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. How you doing? >> What's going on? >> Thanks so much for having me back, guys. >> Uh Last time you were on, we both left. >> We both ordered on the show. >> Very easy check out thanks to Shopify. >> Yeah, thank >> uh and they arrived and uh we have been entertained for hours and really really uh enjoyed the product. Uh but tell us how things are going on your side. Um, it's been a crazy six months. It's been so fun just seeing board actually out in the wild and see seeing people using it and loving it. Um, I think it's really just sort of exceeded our expectations. We have, you know, thousands of households using the product and loving it and people are actually starting to create their own games for board which is been the most uh surprising but exciting development for us. >> Yeah. So you threeed us as as Mark Andrea and I were dressed up on Halloween. It's very funny because it's like a >> very meta. >> It's a character of a character, but uh like what does that actually represent? There there they are in reality >> smaller than they looked >> on the photo. >> In the photo, >> they loom large. They loom large. Uh but but why would a customer want to print something? Walk me through the thesis. Like how is this actually playing out? >> Yeah. So today people are, you know, using their favorite AI coding tools to build using our SDK, which um really surprised us that your sort of average family was sitting down around this new shared surface trying to create their own experiences. And so we've decided to really lean into that and are creating a product we call board studio um that really makes it just easier for your average person to to start to build. So um they'll sit and uh just prompt and the board will uh board studio will create the experience for them including their very own custom miniatures. Um so very excited to see what people are creating. Everything from educational apps to um things for healthcare uh settings or bars or restaurants. It's really been a diverse range of of interactive experiences. >> Yeah. What's the What's the secret to making a you know basically I'll call it like a vibecoded game studio? I imagine you want you don't want to change is like reskinning the best way to think about this because coming up with like original game mechanics and rules and all these things feels like much much much more challenging for the average person than just deciding like I'm going to make this character look like this and I want to change the setting and and choices like that. >> Yeah. So I think it's important for us to really create like a batteries included environment. So to give people good project templates, good asset libraries, an easy way to, you know, connect directly to their board so they can kind of automatically build, deploy, and play games and start to test and to help kind of steer people towards experiences where they really can go from prompt to prototype in an hour. So that's not going to be creating highly complex games um with where the technology is today, but it's it's quite impressive how quickly um you know people are able to create things that are fun just using um sort of a set of prepackaged um assets and and templates. >> Walk me through uh where the board SDK ends and the and the vibe coding begins. it feels like there's an SDK that's open source hosted on GitHub or your website, something like that. I download that and then I can kind of use the vibe coding tool of my choice. I could use codeex, cloud code, whatever I want to sort of uh uh build, but then am I am I testing the game in a browser? Is it going uh am I deploying to the board? Is there the idea of like test flight or then at some point does it get released to an app store that you review? because I imagine there's all sorts of uh of you know privacy and security uh you know uh goals that you have in mind as the company. >> Yeah. So for Q4 you'll be building on a computer and then directly deploying on your board for use with your own family. I think our learning has been that the act of creating a game on board is actually one of the most fun fun games on board. So I think the experience is just going to be vibing things that they love and that their kids love that they want to play in their own homes and then from there if they want to share with the broader community we have a review process. So you submit your game to us we have content standards and controls and then we'll release those games in our board store. So, the first of the community games goes live next month, and that was something that a member of the community created using the arcade pieces from our arcade suite, and it's a reimagined uh game of pinball that we're super excited about, and that will go live in July. And it just went through our review process to ensure that um it was fun and accessible for the community. >> Yeah, >> I have a game idea, Monopoly style game where you develop data centers. >> Yeah. >> Love it. >> I Yeah, I was thinking uh I was on the >> discounted cash flow simulator. It just runs a full spreadsheet sort of like how ramp labs came out with their ramp sheets. You know, you just get the kids started early. >> These will be the the least popular games in your on your community forum, but the mo potentially the most popular. >> My children will be required to play them 8 hours a day, probably 996 really >> to make sure that they understand the discounted cash. How did you feel your intuition was around this launch, you know, versus um mere uh I feel like the hardest thing with hardware is you spend like, you know, one, two years, sometimes more time developing something and you just have no idea. You you have an intuition around how people will react to it. Did you have more confidence going into board than the last goound? uh and and you know did did obviously the launch has been great but did it kind of meet your expectations um and how are you kind of adapting your thinking going forward? I think it surprised me honestly. You know, I think we thought that we would be talking to kind of early adopter gadget geeks, maybe some hobbyists who wanted to build, you know, interactive D and D campaigns on board early days. And the audience has been much broader than expected. You know, we have grandma and grandpa who are buying it for when the grandkids come over along with, you know, um, teachers and doctors and restaurant owners. So the breadth of the audience I think has really surprised us and it's great but it's definitely been um a challenge the team now has to meet because we have to create games quickly that can satisfy not just deep passionate gamers but people who for whom this is like really their only gaming experience. It's bringing sort of new people to the table and so it's been really fun but the mission of making um playing together more accessible and creating together more accessible is all that more important given the breadth of the audience. >> Yeah. How how are you thinking about intellectual property in the modern era? Because uh I can tell my son a bedtime story where uh Spider-Man meets Superman which belong to different different studios. Never the two shall meet on the silver screen, but in the imagination of a 5-year-old, anything is possible, including uh cross IP infringement. Um, and some of the AI models will sort of play friendly with you if you to ask, you know, chatg, hey, tell me a story or flesh this story out where Spider-Man's interacting with Superman. Um, some of the companies have licensing agreements and they make royalty payments and all sorts of things. But there's some sort of interaction there where I can draw Spider-Man and I think that's legal. I think I can just draw a image of Spider-Man, give that to my kid. But uh if I take a picture of that, upload that to board, I imagine at some point you'd be partnering with companies. But is there some sort of terms of use that you have to think through or guard rails that you put on? Because some of the magic of creation is drawing Mickey Mouse for the first time. Uh but if you're monetizing that and selling that, that's a whole different equation. So how do you think about uh playing that side? because I imagine there'll be a huge demand for intellectual property based games, but uh you need to be careful that you don't run into any trouble with the big studios. >> Yeah, I mean I'd love to get to a point where it's just one big universe where you know everyone is playing together in the board sandbox, but we're obviously not there. Um, so I think today, you know, we are making every effort to respect the respect the IP holders and also respect um the sort of safety and privacy concerns of our community. You know, these are families that are using the device. And I have a three-year-old and I want to make sure that when the three-year-old sits down to make pieces that nothing comes out that would be upsetting or surprising surprising to us. Um, but those are definitely active conversations that we have had since day one with IP holders about how we can move to a future universe where um, creation isn't really limited. Um, that people can can bring Spider-Man and and um, you know, Miss Piggy together into into an incredible new world. >> Yeah. Uh, when I think of uh, Dn D campaigns, I I start to think about um, uh, almost like internet connectivity within the game. I I imagine that most of the games are self-contained. It feels like there is a there's an internal state of, you know, is the is the cartoon character clean? You have to wash them off. If you save the game, you come back still dirty. Uh but uh how are you thinking about making the games are are you thinking about expanding to something that is more cloud interactive multiplayer at some point? Is any of that on the horizon? Is that interesting? Is there demand for that even? Yeah, that's definitely a polarizing topic within our audience. Um, some people would love to be able to start a game on their board and then have grandma play on her board in a different state. >> Um, which we we don't do today because the other half of our audience also feels very strongly that >> board feels safe because it is a closed community. Um, so our tabletop product is the first product that will beworked. You will be able to link to your Foundry BTT account and play your campaigns with people elsewhere. Um but we felt like that was um a specific segment of the community that was that understood the connectivity and so otherwise we are keeping it sort of limited to to your board. Um that may that may evolve over time but for now I think those are guardrails that are important to keep it really feeling full family for everyone. >> Uh wait so sorry uh take me through the the the product catalog. It sounds like there's there's are are there are there multiple uh products at this point or is it all just one the one that I have the like the big board? I just think of it as the board. >> The board. >> But is there different is there a different skew at this point or is there one coming? >> So we launched with a founders edition which had 13 games included which is the version that you guys have and then we unbundled in March and so we started um selling five of the games all a cart which was >> really exciting for us. We saw over 60% attach rate on games with most people buying four out of the five games we had available. So that sort of gave us the confidence that more games were were needed in the community. Um so starting in June we'll launch another 10 games between now and holiday and the board table talk product is sort of the most unusual of those in that is it's specifically for the tabletop community that's currently using BTTS. Otherwise they're all sort of full family games. >> Got it. Awesome. >> Warhammer, it's coming. I'm excited. >> Exactly. >> Uh, talk about the round. >> Yeah. I want to hit the gong. >> How much did you raise >> already? We raised a $20 million for >> Venture. Good. >> Sorry. I know. I I could hear you because I had an idea. But who who led the round? >> Mike McNo Square. >> YEAH. >> YES. >> We love Mike. >> We love Mike. And I love uh I don't know everything Union Square is doing, this company, everything about this is just uh delightful and amazing and obviously a good business as well. So it's a royal flush of good news. >> Yeah, great update. >> Thank you so much for taking the time to come chat with us. Have a great rest of your day. >> Thank you guys so much. >> Great to see you. >> We'll talk to you soon. Cheers. >> Byebye. Uh, we got to go back to Instagram because uh, in the AI in the era of AI slob videos, the Reynold Encore was doing it better than anybody years and years ago. We got to pull up this video. I want your reaction because this seems like peak cinema. I want your analysis. Break it down. >> America with independent suspension for amazing handling. >> Reasonable car, right? Wait until you see the advertisement. >> Cheap car. >> You can get a hundred of those for the price of a Ferrari Luch. >> 100 Renault R Encor. Anyway, it's going to it's going to restart and you're going to be amazed. Watch this. >> If you are what you drive, imagine yourself as a Renault Encore. Expressively sporty in stylishly European and design. >> We don't know how to make vibe reels like this anymore. >> Leading car maker. >> Show me the founder transforming into the B2B SAS that they are launching. electronic fuel injection. >> Put away the cinematic soft box. Take away the soft shallow depth of field. Show me the founder transforming into the product. >> I can see myself in a Renault. >> The one such good ad. >> The one to watch. Great ad, right? >> Such a good. >> You know what else ad? >> Cisco critical infrastructure for the AI era. Unlock seamless real-time experiences and new value with Cisco. Mike Isaac said, "Get ready to get even more annoyed by your cheapest friends because the Germinator is sharing that Apple ready's iOS 27 service that will let users split bills for dinners >> events by taking a photo of a receipt and assigning items to friends. This is >> annoying super intelligence uh that I won't be using. Uh, this will be part of Apple Wallet and Cash. Yeah. >> Taking on Venmo and Split Wise. >> You got to do the credit card roulette. >> I love that game. >> Or the inverse credit card roulette where one person you take out one credit card, they don't pay. So, they get the free dinner and everyone else splits the bill and everyone else pays like 10% more, but someone else got like a free dinner, so they get a great, you know, >> and everyone got great company. >> Yeah. But no, it uh the the every dinner should be a a ruthless game theoretic Nash equilibrium of everyone trying to drink exactly the same amount or buy the most expensive steak to one up each other so that you don't get taken to the cleaners with an even split. You want to get your money's worth. So if you see someone ordering the porter house, you say, "I'll have two porter houses. Give me two porter houses." We're splitting this evenly, right? Oh, you got three glasses of wine. Let's do another round. I'll take 10. But triple me up. And I am having dessert. I'm having >> Yeah, I'm a big dessert guy. >> I'm a big dessert guy, actually. I'll be taking it to go. >> That's the best. >> I'll be taking order lunch for tomorrow, too. >> And I'd like a third porter house >> for lunch. >> For lunch tomorrow. Let's split the bill evenly. >> Don't Don't pull out your Apple intelligence on me. Don't do that. I What's the crime having a porter house? Having two porter houses, having three porter houses. You're You're going to divide that up with Apple intelligence over your receipt. You don't want one of your good friends to hit their macros today? >> What are you trying to do here? >> There's a whey protein shortage. >> What's going on? >> There's a whey protein shortage and you're saying I shouldn't order my second and third porter house. >> What is going on? >> When you know if I go to the store right now, weighs going to be priced to the >> Let me have a porter house. Let me have three. >> That's a good place to end it, folks. >> Thank you for tuning in. Leave us five stars in Apple Podcast and Spotify. Let me tell you about RAMP one more time. Time is money. Say both. Easy to use corporate cards, bill pay, accounting, and a whole lot more.