Inside the OpenAI vs. Elon Musk Courtroom

Let's bring him into the TVP Ultradome. He's at the New York Times. Mike, how you doing? >> Yo, what's up? >> Good to see you. >> Great to see you. >> So, >> wait. So, what's up? Yeah. So, so 4 day work week. >> Are [laughter] they living in the future? >> Yeah. Is this Universal Basic vacation days? >> It's Cord is incredible in that I got to sleep in till like 9:00 a.m. today, which is which was great. But I made up for it because like literally every day this week, I've gotten up at 5:00 in the morning to get my cold ass down to the Oakland courthouse and stand outside for 2 hours. So, I don't know. But it's fun. It's fun. >> How does it How does it work? Who gets priority? Is it first come first serve? Like if some random person if some random person shows up before you, >> they can just get it and you're just out >> or or or do you get to like show some sort of like press? Like how does it work? Yeah. I wish I was cool enough to like cut. Well, here's the thing. >> You should get an artist pass. [laughter] >> VIP pass, right? >> No, not VIP. Artist pass is a level above. >> Okay. Artist [clears throat] pass. [laughter] >> I So, there are 20 uh reserve seats in the front row for press. But the issue is uh only one person per outlet gets it. And we are doing like live blogging for like the big moments like opening statements and for Elon. Yeah. >> And so myself and my colleague Cade came on the first week. And so we've had a trade-off. He's gotten the like press skip the line thing and I've been with um >> the other folks in the 30 unreserved seats in the back and >> that are watching YouTube videos. >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. Or literally >> sessions. >> Literally one dude fell asleep. I was actually impressed. >> Fell asleep. >> Yeah. >> Uh it seemed pretty entertaining. You didn't seem like you were falling asleep. I was keeping up on the through the live blog. >> You reading my nightmarish Twitter, too. I It's been fun, honestly. Have you guys ever done like court case things or have you ever been sued or been in court? >> Never been in court. I I went to uh mock court in high school where everyone picks a role. I think I was >> Yeah, we lar literally laring in high school. But other than that, I never >> I the whole this whole time it seems it seems insane like with with the with the recent NASA the moon mission. I was like this should be a live stream plus a pay-per-view for the key moments >> for this trial. It's like we have huge budget deficits and we have these incredible media products. Why are we not doing pay-per-views, right? >> Um [laughter] >> but uh >> that's the the funny thing. Oh, I was just going to say that's the funny thing about like federal courthouse stuff. Like there's a lot of different rules around filming and electronics. I covered some cases in DC and I can't even bring a laptop or phone in those courouses. So like this is actually a very permissive judge just because she believes in like press access and stuff and we've had there's way more access than you would normally get in federal court cases. >> Okay. So you you've been to these court cases before, but if I follow your Twitter, it feels like you're making a bunch of rookie mistakes. You you you you you only had egg bites at 5:30 a.m. Your bite energy is wearing off. You forgot your butt pillow. You forgot to fill your water bottle. Like, is this amateur hour or are you a professional? What's going on? >> I think I think that you you guys might know me well enough that that is kind of how I operate most of my life. Like kind of chaotic, but it is. >> Focus on the important stuff. >> That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, I can file. I may be like bleeding and hungry like limping across the finish line, but we're getting I'm tweeting for you. >> Uh what what is your what what is your what are some like high-profile cases that that stand out that you've covered in the past? >> So, I got to do let's see, my first one was insanely boring but important. The Apple versus Samsung thing back in the day and like them suing for Samsung copying like literally everything they do. Um, I did uh Dallas actually Zuckerberg's like I think maybe one of his first testimonies on the stand when Zenamax was suing Meta for the Oculus acquisition. Remember that? >> Yeah. Palmer. >> That was in Dallas. That was super fun. Uh that I almost got kicked out of the courtroom for tweeting. >> Whoa. >> Um and then I did uh the DC FTC Meta one and I almost got kicked out of the courtroom again. Actually, I did get kicked out of the courtroom for wearing the Meta Ray-B bands. These are not it, >> but I wore the MetaT. And then they started putting I was I was [ __ ] super stupid for doing it. [laughter] But then they started putting signs up saying, "Do not wear these glasses in court." >> But you weren't you you were just using them as glasses or you were being sneaky and you were recording. >> No, I was like, "Look, I can't record. I won't record." I was trying to play by the rules and like they were they are my prescription glasses. Yeah, but the baiff >> the baiff was like, >> "It's too much. It's too high risk for them >> because you could have like turned off the the light or whatever. Something like that. >> Uh talk about the the the fans. Are there really Elon Musk fans in the courtroom? Like what what motivates someone to go and watch that live? Is this their UFC front row ticket? Like why why are they there? >> Uh so you guys would have fun. Like it actually is a lot of court cases are boring to people who don't care about this stuff, right? Like you and I may be super into like the FTC trial was super fun for me because it's like oh my god Mark Zuckerberg emailing Cheryl Samberg and talking about PATH like this is incredible and like the average person has no idea what we're talking about but this is like a a circus. There are people who genuinely love Elon or are genuinely worried about the end of the world happening. >> Um and I think it's a really good thing that there's public access to these courts. Like I think like the average person can come in and show up and that's what I think after the the buzz of Twitter and like people seeing that this is a event we got a much longer lines and like folks who are local like just like I know a PM in tech from Meta that came. I know like a guy from Box made it in. Uh just if you get a seat >> if you get there early enough then you can get a seat and you can just hang out. It's like and I think it's really great. I think it's great that people are Yeah. are there for it, you know? It shouldn't just be me. >> Yeah. >> What about the What about the jury? Does the jury seem excited and and honored to have the opportunity to be to be a part of of a case like this or are they are they nodding off? It be so funny to be like so out of just like off the internet. You >> can't be super bad. Not a PS like Sam. this guy Sam and Greg and this guy who makes cars and I don't even know what they're [laughter] talking a bunch of whole bunch of mumbo jumbo. Like there's got to be one person on the jury that was just so not >> tapped in that that they're just confused. >> Yeah. >> I think jury selection was super interesting for that. I can't say it's actually interesting. I can't say too much about the jury right now because like there's all these rules about >> Oh, sure. >> like some random person could go up to them if you identify them or try to alter it. >> Totally. But I will say like during jury selection on Monday, it is an incredible slice of life and you get like how familiar or unfamiliar people are with the tech industry despite being here, you know, like some folks are like, I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know what >> AI is. I don't know what AGI stands for. So it really >> it really play and voadier and jury selection is so important for cases like this. just it makes the dynamic of the facts don't necessarily always matter, but the vibe can really matter, which I think is a benefit for Elon, honestly. >> Yeah. Were they were they trying to weed out they're trying to weed out people that are a little bit too excited about the case, right? You want the people that are like in order to have a but but then talk I I didn't understand why why is the jury just like giving like an advisory decision? What is the history of like why do you why do you >> have a jury when the judge is ultimately going to make the final call? It it feels like just kind of putting on like a show cuz like theoretically the judge could just >> sit through a bunch of depositions and make a call. >> Yeah. >> Sure. No, I I think um so I do think they want more often than not want a jury of these CEOs and companies peers to be the deciding factor in what they feel like is good for a civil claim like that I think is fairly standard but to your point um the judge can throw out their verdict which is like is and judges I don't think tend to want to do that because like they want to have reliance on this is the public the public should have a say in what goes or whatever. But uh the judge can do that. I will say also she is responsible for uh if they are if Elon or or sorry if open AI is found liable, judge decides on remedies, damages and things like that. So she still has an active role in that regard and in steering the case. But I really do think that uh full courts often prefer or often appreciate a peer a jury of your peers making some of these decisions. So I don't think it's going to be like completely disregarded is what I would say. >> Yeah. >> Uh how has Judge Rogers done so far in your view? Just reading reading the live blog, she seemingly has like zingers like pretty pretty like good like oneliners. is the time. I'm just like kind of imagining what it's like in there cuz obviously I'm just reading text, but she's had like seemingly like some pretty good comedic timing. >> Yeah. >> Oh my god, she's so funny. She's like real like, >> as you might imagine, there's like a number of different types of judges and how they handle their court or whatever. And she just takes no BS from anyone, including the lawyers. And like when they try to like tap dance or break the rules or whatever, she's like, "No, shut up." Or like get back on track or no, no, no. Actually, the best part or the most insane part. So, one woman in the overflow room who was just a uh not just, it was a civilian going to attend and watch it, >> started recording, which is again the rules, if not the law, in a federal courthouse. So the judge brings her in and in front of a room of like a hundred people just like dresses her down, yells at her saying, "Did you not see any of these signs? What are you doing? I will kick you out. I will It was like >> I I would have like peed my pants and started crying if she had done that to me." It was deeply deeply intense. >> It's it's teacher, you know, uh berating a student. >> Yeah. Classes in session. >> Classes in session here. Um >> it was brutal. uh how how how have how have you been processing Elon's positioning? It feels like the two uh the two stories that I've heard him sort of telling are one about his commitment to technology, humanity uh saving the world through you know Tesla and the electrification of the internal combustion engine and SpaceX making you know humanity multilanetary and then and that's like a very highlevel uh you know high concept uh pitch and then He also sort of brings it down and starts beating this drum on like you can't steal a charity. You can't steal a charity. Uh is that the correct framing that he's trying to go like high and low there? How much have he's been beating each of these drums and how useful is that? >> Totally. So I I totally agree that's the framing and I think this really goes to the point of a lot of these trials are pageantry is the wrong word but let's say theater in that you are this is a jury trial and it's a different thing than just convincing a judge who I would say is much more attuned to the facts and merit of the case and like hammering in on the evidence and like uh something that may be boring to you or me or whatever or the jury is going to be more important to a judge. Elon, I think from day one, has leaned into the persona of Elon and just from him being on the stand and saying, "I care about humanity. I mean, he he says he does whatever he does or doesn't, but like just leaning into this like I'm a worldchanging entrepreneur and this stuff is existential and I'm the one who has cared about it and like that may work on a jury, you know, like there are people who still love him and you know, OpenAI is really hammering the facts of what they feel are are their side of the case and saying Elon has known about uh Elon has never been in the dark. He quit in a huff. he uh he's made it very clear he hasn't been there. He's trying to sue now or he's trying to file this claim now because he's catching up because he's behind as an XAI competitor. But like again, this is all stuff that maybe it doesn't play. Like this is why jury trials are so risky for companies a lot of the time. You know, it's really >> it's fun for me. It's probably not fun for for everyone in there, but it's fun to see it play out if that makes sense. >> How did the distillation uh comments come up? That was like that was the news of the day yesterday. You guys obviously returned. >> You broke you you you broke it, right? >> I think I did. Yeah. I think it was one of those things where I was like, "Holy [ __ ] this is news." And I think like Boltz like started figuring it out, but I was like got to put it on Twitter. And uh uh so the point uh so Bill Sabat is lead council for OpenAI. He was sort of talking about the the point was made in the context of they want to hammer home Elon is creating a competitive product and also he keeps stressing that this is doom worldending technology but at the same time he's he's he's ripping off the toss and using the technology to improve his own technology in an explicitly for-profit company. And so the the point is like hammering him as a hypocrite. And I think look like I think Elon has history in his businesses. It would not be controversial to say to to like say one thing and do the other. And I think he sees it as like rules of engagement. That's the game in the you know no holds capitalism land. But like that is how it came up and that they didn't go super deep into it but they wanted to make the point he's using open eyes tech. He's breaking the toss and he's partly distilling it. And I want to say also that Elon went out of his way to say everyone kind of does this. It's like an open secret in the industry, which I think is like also kind of true, but that doesn't make it there's like it's it's fraught, I guess, is what I would say. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a there's obviously a continuum there, which is why he tried to hammer that it was like partly I imagine most car companies have taken a rival car for a spin. Have they taken the car apart? you know, there's a line there and there are laws, but that's a separate issue, of course. >> Has um has anything come up with a jury around prediction markets? Because I was thinking we've now seen insider trading across every possible prediction market, right? From uh you know, I'm sure from you know, even even the Maduro thing was was was interesting because a lot of people were like, "Oh, he's just betting on himself." But then I saw that I was like, hey, that's sending a signal to the entire world that an attack could be happening which puts your entire team at risk, right? So like very very clearly like US military personnel should not be able to trade against >> our own military's actions ever, right? And that they need to come down really hard on that. >> Are you a jury trading on this? Are you just trading [clears throat] on this crazy? Are you [laughter] are you going to retire off this? But the reason the reason that the jury thing is is is bad is it creates a potentially an incentive for the jury to basically work together and say like, "Hey, like we all have to be here for like a month." >> Like we could at least make some money on it and then you only need to get like four You only need to get like four or five of these people. >> The chat is saying monetize jury duty. [laughter] >> Oh my god. No, but but but like it seems like very important that this does not happen, right? Because because there's very like they they tried to select a jury that just doesn't care about the AI race. They don't care about this or that. >> And and but if they are self-interested in some capacity, they could be like, well, my my decision is not is not even really legally binding. It's just advisory. Like I may as well, you know, I don't know. Right. Uh, no. >> I I think that's a great point and like something that I imagine like court systems aren't even prepared for fully yet because like >> well there hasn't been a big there hasn't been a big trial like there's been I'm sure some like epic Apple stuff that was slightly big but but nothing where nothing at this scale with this much even just this much volume already from people that are generally interested in >> in in the story. >> Yeah. >> The outcome. And like I think the other thing you should know is like they're not sequestered. Like they show up kind of like before >> like anyone else >> right before they Yeah. Like they literally like we see them walking in and that the marshalss there's like a ton of like US marshals there. They're like, "Is anyone a juror in this line?" The juror gets to go in. So like and at the end of every day the judge is like goes back over the rules saying, "Do not discuss this case with anyone. Do not watch it on TV. Do not look at it on your phone." which is like a verbal command. Don't go on your phone. >> Just don't Exactly. >> Hey, don't use the most addictive thing that has [laughter] ever been created in human history. Don't use the thing that you use for 6 hours a day >> that you probably turn your lights on and adjust your thermostat. >> Totally. I mean it's that's a it's something I had not thought of Jordy but it's a really good >> like when does that come up at some point you know like that's very worried not but just ever >> yeah it seem it seems like something that um >> that that uh the court should be paying attention to heading into a a a decision from from the jury. Yeah. Uh, how much is the history between uh, Opening Eyes Council, Bill uh, who represented he represented Twitter when Elon was trying to get out of the the the the Twitter buyout. >> Uh, and ultimately it feels like the X/T Twitter acquisition has worked out pretty well for Elon. He's made a number a number of plays. So hard to hard to imagine him like, you know, deeply regretting buying it even though at the time he was happy to get out until Bill said, "No, we're we're doing this." [laughter] I You know what's funny? Um he is I I can't underscore enough how different the tenor chain. I mean, look, it's like it's opposing council, so it's always going to be different. But Elon went from like I'm a entrepreneur sort of like rosily explaining to you what I think the future should look like and like very concerned for the future of the human race to like openly antagonistic to Savit's questioning and like and the the thing that I'm very curious how this plays with the jury is like Elon was very he's like I'm a literal guy like the questions you're asking me are like too complicated or like they're not yes or no questions which is fair like as a grievance, but also the thing he either doesn't understand or doesn't care about understanding is that that's just lawyers. Like that's the whole point of a cross-examination is to ask these questions as as reductively as possible to to get a type of answer they're looking for. and his job or his uh you know pre-trial sort of discussions with his own lawyers is to know how to navigate those essentially while also telling the the truth. So I don't know they they just don't like each other or at least Elon doesn't like Sav and you can very it's very clear that he's just like mad at that. And whenever Elon gets sassy, I would hear like clearly people who are fans of of Musk like laughing behind me are being like, "Yeah, you got him." Like it's just it's very it's very funny. It's like kind of a It's different than the usual vibe is what I'd say. >> That's very interesting. >> How outlook? What's going on Monday? What's the outlook? >> It feels like this week was the Elon side for the most part. Are we going to flip to uh Sam and Greg and and some other OpenAI folks or is there a an intermediate step? Like do you do you have a clear view of what the next couple weeks look like? >> Yeah, so it's a little rough because we we have witness lists in full that they presented and are in evidence, but they you don't really learn who's coming until like very soon that week. It's actually a giant pain in the ass for me and for reporters who are trying to schedule. But like so we Jared Burch who's like must family office guy just finished testifying. Uh we're going to get uh this guy Steuart Russell us. >> No sorry that was yesterday. And and you said Birchaw was very dry. Like was that intentional? It feels like that does not work in favor of like swinging a jury. Was that more for the judge? Like what was the goal of that uh of that uh testimony? I think it was to really just sort of show how Musk was trying to set up this like like structure things as a non nonprofit and like hammer home like he's always wanted it to be a nonprofit and he's not sort of like so it was it was uh I believe it was Musk's witness who OpenAI then cross-examined and OpenAI used the occasion to show an email that had like a proposed equity structure for Musk. And so like they both kind of used him differently, but I think like Bertall is like a >> essentially an accountant books guy like behind the scenes. So I think it was like here's a peak behind the curtain. Here's how they were dealing with the finances. Here's how >> uh Musk was like this is only a charity. And then >> uh opening eyes lawyers were like actually check this [ __ ] out. So I but I think like I don't I honestly don't know. They also struck some of his testimony because this is a little complicated but if you remember last year Open AI or um Musk made a bid with AR Emanuel and some other companies >> buy the whole company >> and that uh open the door or that sort of um complicates uh things for M's side because there might be uh some of those discussions around that bid admitted into evidence and that may not be good for Musk. because if there's like weird compromising emails in there. So, like it's gotten complicated. But next week, we're getting >> Stuart Russell, safety researcher. We got Greg Brockman, maybe Sam Alman, maybe not. It's four days a week in court only. So, we may not have time, but I got to be ready. I'll be there most of the time, but I'll be there for Sam for sure. And then I don't know. >> Sorry, rewinding a second. Did Did they bid Did they bid on the PVC like the the forprofit arm? >> Yeah, that was >> it was the Yeah. and they they wanted to just sort of I I don't actually know what their plans were afterwards, but like it was like trying to take over the asset those assets basically and then uh you know morph it into what they I mean and they knew that it wasn't going to get accepted as a bid basically but it was like uh and then Birchall sorry Ball in court was saying this was us trying to sort of establish a pricing uh mechanism to like value the actual entity itself and that was going to help them somehow. I actually am not quite sure how that would help them somehow, but uh someone in the chat is probably smarter than me. I'm not. But like it was them trying to sort of take that over. And I think Openi said publicly at the time this is like a stalling tactic. They're trying to like slow us down while also using this in court in this concurrent lawsuit later basically. So, it's all like really messy and I think even Musk's side took a risk there if those emails get into discovery, but it's unclear to me if that's going to happen. If we if they are, then we may see them next week. >> Do you >> why would why would that that kind of discovery process around that bid be coming up now when everyone involved was well aware that it had happened quite a long time ago. So I think because of a line of questioning with Birchaw yesterday about the bid that like if that happens on the stand and again like a lawyer gut checked me here because I'm a stupid tech reporter but if that happens on the stand then it gives an entry point for open eyes lawyers to be like okay well we need to you know now admit basically the judge said to must side you open this line of questioning now it's fair game to go into this And then you can start calling new evidence in around that like to open up discovery. It's like really like strategy and like you have to be careful in your strategy when you're asking certain questions in court. I've been learning a lot about it. So maybe it's a strategic misstep by Tobber Eloner, but it's not quite clear yet. >> Do you have a idea of the purpose of the AI safety researchers testifying what the goal is there? like does that align with one particular side? Like if there's more nonprofits like you still probably wind up with anthropic, deep mind, XAI like it like having one like you know more focused nonprofit going on for a long time doesn't necessarily lead me to like oh then we wouldn't be in an AI race like it's not a clear solve for me but I imagine that that so one side is trying to position this as important but do you have any predictions for what that goal is? >> Totally. So this is must witness and your point is well made which is like okay if even if you kneecap one like good luck on literally everyone else and like there's been a lot of time spent >> Elon talking smack about Larry Page and how he like doesn't trust him anymore. That's actually been really fun to hear. >> Um but uh the the point I believe is this is actually a point of contention. So the judge does not the judge prohibited like going too far into like doomerism into the world stuff and she's like look that's kind of a sideshow distraction like extinction humanity stuff is not the point of this case but Mside called this guy because they want someone and this my my understanding is that Stuart is like very aligned with the idea that AI is super dangerous and going to harm us all. And so if you get this guy in there make that point. How does that not like if this guy's going to come on and say that AI like the most insane like doomer point of view which I think is >> everyone's going to have their own opinion around this debate. It's worth completely worthy of of having and and talking about. Uh but but how does Elon square that with like I'm trying to build the biggest cluster possible and you know distill on the rest of the industry's model and you know create >> tens of of gigawatts of space compute and like how how does that how does that like can't this kind of witness potentially backfire in some capacity? No, I mean you're you're you're exactly right in that squaring that circle is pretty hard and like exactly what um >> I should be I I I should be trusted with the you know all powerful >> we're going to be in the Terminator situ situation no matter [clears throat] what. So you want me in charge of the Terminators, [laughter] not some other guy, not some nonprofit, not some holders. He is he is he's basically making he's he's he's pivoting Tesla production to uh >> Terminators. >> The Terminators basically >> Optimus. >> Yeah. >> Great. No, I I and like can I just make one last point is that I think he he misunderstood the Terminator because like >> we still survive and we fight back in that world. Do you remember the >> I've been saying this people haven't seen the movie. Jordy actually hasn't seen the Terminator but in all these [clears throat] movies. >> Are you kidding me, dude? We've seen five movies in in all of these movies like it completely leaves out that there is a problem and then humanity overcomes it. And so it's like if there is a Terminator scenario like I just want to know that you're on my side as the resistance fighting back and like whether the Terminator or John Connor >> hopefully. I mean I I would Yeah. It's I don't know. I don't want to get into the the the full Udicowski [clears throat] thing, but like like it is reasonable to be to to to to sort of steal man that like if it is bad right now it's not. It sucks. >> Says I have to watch Terminator tonight. >> You got to watch Terminator. >> Okay, so I just saw this on Twitter. Terminator 2 is coming back into IMAX pretty soon. Like you can go see it in the theater. So you have to go see it, Jordy. Like it's it's required viewing. >> Let's go together. >> Yeah. >> I'm down. I'm down. Do you do you have any >> I would say that so far the trial is less I mean it's hard for the trial to go very viral because there's no audio video and it's just like live blogging >> and you can imagine you can imagine some of these scenes like just the stuff that you're typing. I'm like if that was on video >> that gets like 50 million views in like >> you know in a few hours on on on X you know across a bunch of these different aggregator accounts. Um, but part is is maybe part of the like >> my my feeling is like it's just so it's just so like I feel like the entire tech industry is like it's just kind of depressing to see to see these groups like fighting in this way when we have so much bigger problem like we have so many bigger problems as an industry right the big problem being like public perception of AI >> is like already so bad like people you know don't don't like you know >> I I saw some protest signs that were like >> no matter who wins we all lose or something like that like there's some very negative stuff and >> I mean that so I totally agree and I do think actually um everyone not everyone but like many in the AI industry have started realizing oh we have like not everyone loves us like this is a perception problem in a lot of way which like to me is funny because like I I not that I'm smart but I feel like I've known that for a little while and but it's the the the issue is the the industry is coming around to that or at least certain folks are and know that they want to change that perception. But this case has been >> in the system for like years now and sort of like actually happening at a time where they wouldn't want it to necessarily happen if they're trying to change that. So the timing just sucks honestly for for folks who don't like that if that makes sense. Yeah, there's so many different like little tidbits and I don't know if they're going to be exact quotes, but you can just imagine plenty of things that are going to happen on the stand winding up on a Bernie Sanders post and being like, "Stop it. Pause [laughter] AI." Right? Because like, you know, it's always like give the tech people enough rope to hang themselves and like there's a lot of rope going out the next couple weeks. >> Oh my gosh. It's totally you got to one of y'all both of y'all should just show up to the courtroom at some point and like experience it because I mean you have an actual day job but it's like literally >> it's really interesting and like an experience. >> So you you can't record video, you can't record audio, but is there a world where you have like five of your own stenographers there taking a perfect transcript? Would that be possible with enough resources? >> And then we could do a table reading on the show. >> That's what I'm thinking is that is [laughter] that you could use voice cloning. I don't know if you noticed this. Uh Tyler, what was it? Grock launched voice cloning today or something which is Why is that controversial again? >> Well, for like I mean we've had this technology for like 5 years and then no one released it because like you don't want people to make deep fakes of other people's voices. >> Okay. Yeah. Because it's like textbook like I could call you. I call you John. I need I need I need like I need 500 bucks. Can you give me a credit card for a second? >> So obviously there's a bunch of risky uses of that. The good use is the comedic table read [laughter] in the voice of Sam Alman in the voice of Greg Brockman in the voice of Elon Musk that we could all enjoy. >> I was thinking more of like doing like a end of the day there's like we do a play here all of a bunch of different >> full makeup, full costume. You know, there are transcription services and even like >> you could do you could be Mike Isaac by like [laughter] >> Oh, yeah. We need someone playing you for sure. >> No, it's like it's it's a cameo. He's playing >> himself. Okay. No, >> I think you got to go full Nathan. >> And the whole the whole time just crashing out like I forgot my lunch. I forgot to fill up my water. [laughter] >> I had a banana. >> I had a banana. >> Oh my god. Okay. Can I just say there is an attorney there that looks exactly like Nathan Fielder that I'm like almost like is this Nathan looks like Nathan >> Fielder every time I see him I'm like is this like a bit like I'm am I going to be on TV in some way? It's very intense. I'm going to ask him next year. >> I mean Elon Musk says the funniest outcome's the most likely and that might be >> seriously [laughter] what is the what is the funniest outcome? The funniest outcome is like Elon wins and the penalty is like is like 50 bucks or something like that [laughter] like that. It's like it's like Elon like when you win here's here's $150. Enjoy it. >> Just the most like inconsequential fine for the AI industry which is flush with cash at all times. Well, I find that like >> fine like there's so many anytime a company in tech gets that gets fined or not every time, but often it's like >> sometimes it's a fine for ants. >> Yeah. Like they they they did something that was bad. They generated a hundred million of revenue and the fine is like $1.5 million. It's like did that >> I think the current Meta YouTube lawsuit was like maybe a $10 million settlement. Of course, there was like knockon of the potential for class action. That was for one That was for one individual. >> That was one individual. But still, it was like you have this like landmark case, this big build, and then you're like, "Oh, how how how damaging is it going to be? It's going to be like five minutes of revenue." [laughter] >> But the stock actually in meta earnings as as far I mean, there was a lot of [ __ ] that took the stock down, but like I think one of them was them saying like this might have a material impact on like these cases like may have a material impact in the future if it opens the door. So, like, yeah, I agree. Like, it's always remedies are always like it can be existential from a financial point of view, but also just from a guess what, this is about to become your whole [ __ ] life for the next 10 years or whatever, if that makes sense. >> Yeah. Yeah. We talked to a a law professor who uh said like the question is, does social media exist in the future? Like, this is an existential moment. I'm not sure that we're quite there, but uh it is it is there is definitely a risk and you need to consider that if you're an investor. >> Totally. Anyway, >> uh what's the game plan for next week? What's going in? Are you doing trail mix? Are you doing protein bars? [laughter] I want you fueled up, ready to go. >> Camelback came back. >> You You should be able to do like a sponsored Camel Back, you know? [laughter] >> Did you ever watch Jury Dude, the show Jury D? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. I I want to be the guy with like the chair pants and the like the water thing attached to my back and like >> I need I'm got to This is blogging. This is back in my blogging all things digital blog days, man. This is this is it. So, I will be more prepared this weekend. Go. You should go sit in a chair for eight hours straight. >> Are you going to do all four days? Are you doing all four days? >> I think we're going to switch off a little more. I I apologize. I will not be my like disastrous falling apart self every day of the week, just maybe two days of the week. So, uh, Kate, you should follow Kade Mets, my other colleague who's there. Um, although he he is much more put together and does not tweet like a person off their meds like I do. So, >> uh, it'll be a different vibe each day, but I I will be there next week. Yeah. >> Last question. Is this book material? Is it does it rise to that quality this drama? I feel like someone's got to write >> I would write a book on your coverage of this trial. >> Yes, that's what I want to read this [laughter] the my >> and then I would do a podcast about it. I would do a podcast about it and then someone would make a book about the podcast about the book [laughter] >> covering my cover. >> We'll create a content or Boros here. [laughter] >> Keep it going someday. I don't know. We'll see. >> Anyway, thank you so much for great to catch up. Good to see you Mike. Thanks for the update. We'll talk to you soon. Have a good one, >> guys. I'll see you soon.